User talk:Lineagegeek

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22nd Expeditionary Air Refueling Squadron

added a link pointing to Vert

26th Air Refueling Squadron

added a link pointing to Goose Bay Airport

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• Not listed among our EAS articles
• https://www.greeks-in-foreign-cockpits.com/pilots-crews/bombardiers-and-navigators/mark-vlahos/ - Seeb North, Oman June 2001
• Initial OEF operations in Pakistan
• https://nara.getarchive.net/media/us-air-force-usaf-brigadier-general-bgen-gilmary-m-hostage-iii-left-commander-fa77b3 - inactivated June 2002
• But not listed at https://www.dafhistory.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/862035/363-intelligence-surveillance-and-reconnaissance-wing-acc/
• Thoughts welcome!! Buckshot06 (talk) 10:01, 6 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I am not previousy aware of this unit. It would have taken its number as the "second" airlift squadron assigned to the 363d Air Expeditionary Wing and I would guess has no lineage from an earlier unit (although possibly, the 763d Bombardment Squadron was converted to provisional status). At Any rate, if it was at Seeb in 2001-2002, it might have been assigned to the 320th Air Expeditionary Wing, which was at Seeb at the time. If it remained active at Seeb or elsewhere in SWA and came under the 363d Air Expeditionary Wing, it would have likely been assigned to the 363d Expeditionary Operations Group, not directly to the wing (unhelpfully, the AFHRA Factsheet for the 363d ISR Group lists a 763d Expeditionary Reconnaissance Squadron, but not a 763d Expeditionary Airlift Squadron, although it does list a 363d Expeditionary Airlift Squadron). Lineagegeek (talk) 19:49, 6 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Do we have an L&H for the 363 (E) OG available? Buckshot06 (talk) 15:31, 8 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

When you removed my grammar fixes, you tipped me off that you have been modifying many USAF unit pages to remove the categories for establishment and disestablishment dates. You cite WP:RCATS to justify this, even though there's nothing that pertains to redirects. I recommend you stop 1.) stop removing those navigational categories and 2.) add accurate edit summaries. Best, ~ Pbritti (talk) 02:57, 8 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, this seems to be an even more severe issue: your edits don't seem to make much sense. For example, for this edit from 7 September 2025, you gave the edit summary of Removed inappropriate category per WP:RCAT, formatted. In that edit, you removed two categories wholly unrelated to redirects (which is what WP:RCATS covers) and inserted {{Use American English|date=March 2023}}. These edits are being done with some rapidity and with repetitive edit summaries that seem wholly unrelated to the actual content of the edits. I think the removal of "disestablishment" categories has something to do with your "deactivated" statement on your user page (if it does, stop, the category applies to inactive units). Otherwise, the whole thing is odd. ~ Pbritti (talk) 03:07, 8 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Pbritti, thank you for your concern in this matter. The establishment and deactivation categories pertain to the unit whose name is on the article, not earlier ones, which means the date categories read correctly when found in category entries. The earlier names of the units are at redirects, and the date categories properly belong - for those units - at the redirects. You will gain more understanding of the conventions that Lineagegeek and I are restoring (hope I did use the correct grammar at least in that last sentence!!) if you take a look at User talk:SmartyPants22. You will have to do some reverts on the page history because SmartyPants22 reverted the explanatory messages about USAF lineage rules after receiving them. Kind regards Buckshot06 (talk) 07:52, 8 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Buckshot06: Ok, I see the general idea you're going for: if the notional 20th Air Reconnaissance Squadron was inactivated in 1956 but was reactivated in 2001 as the 20th Air Refueling Squadron, you have the former name as a redirect and the 1956 disestablishment category applies only to that redirect. This does not seem to justify a number of Lineagegeek's edits (particularly removing the most recent, current disestablishment categories from presently inactive units), but does explain the general direction you're going in. Thank you for the reply and explanation, and I'll swing through the reversions I did to ensure they comply with the standards you two are aiming for. Best, ~ Pbritti (talk) 12:24, 8 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Pbritti: If, as @Buckshot06: suggested, you look at my explanatory entry that SmartyPants22 deleted from his talk page, you will see that these units were not established or disestablished on the stated dates (or their establishment or disestablishment is categorized at a redirect from an earlier designation of the unit, which is what WP:RCAT discusses.) In your notional example, the 20th was neither disestablished in 1956 nor established in 2001. You may refer to the glossary in Maurer, Maurer, ed. (1982) [1969]. Combat Squadrons of the Air Force, World War II (PDF) (reprint ed.). Washington, DC: Office of Air Force History. ISBN 0-405-12194-6. LCCN 70605402. OCLC 72556. Retrieved December 17, 2016. for an explanation of US Air Force organizational terms. When referring to US Air Force units, these definitions govern. Lineagegeek (talk) 14:15, 8 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think I'm seeing what you mean. I think I agree on redirects alone bearing disestablishment dates for previous designations, but think that redesignations and reactivations are functional establishments for categorization purposes. Since you seem to be a subject-matter expert on the nuances of activations/inactivations, I'll defer to you there. Please bear in mind that the edit summaries were still incorrect and non-descriptive, but the added context goes a long way to explaining this. Thanks to you both for taking the time to reply. ~ Pbritti (talk) 14:32, 8 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Pbritti: Thanks. I'll wait a day or so before resuming action on SmartyPants22's categorization (BTW, some of them were proper, and in other cases, there was no appropriate redirect created). I'll have a go at being clearer with my edit summaries. Lineagegeek (talk)

I do not think this data is all correct. Can you comment?

"The Human Systems Center was created in 1992, integrating people into Air Force systems through research and development. It was formed at Brooks Air Force Base, San Antonio, Texas, from parts of the Aerospace Medical Division. It was reflagged and reorganized into the 311th Human Systems Wing (1998). When the Agile Combat Support Systems Wing was created in 2004, it absorbed the functions and personnel of the 311th Human Systems Wing as the new Human Systems Group. This group was then redesignated as the 77th Aeronautical Systems Group in 2006."

Cheers

Buckshot06 (talk) 09:49, 13 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

No, but kinda

1: The Aerospace Medical Division was constituted on 1 November 1961, activated at Brooks AFB (later Brooks City-Base) and assigned to AF Systems Command. On 6 February 1987, it was redesignated Human Systems Division and on 1 July 1992, Human Systems Center and reassigned to AF Materiel Command. On 1 October 1998, it was redesignated the 311th Human Systems Wing and reassigned to the Aeronautical Systems Center. It was inactivated on 2 October 2009.

2: The Agile Combat Support Systems Wing was constituted on 23 November 2004, activated at Wright-Patterson AFB on 18 January 2005 and assigned to the Aeronautical Systems Center, consolidated on 23 June 2006 with the 77th Observation Group and the 77th Air Base Wing (lineage from 2852d Air Base Wing), redesignated 77th Aeronautical Systems Wing on 14 July 2006 and inactivated on 30 June 2010.

3: The Human Systems Group was constituted on 23 November 2004, activated at Brooks City-Base on 18 January 2005 and assigned to the Agile Combat Support Systems Wing (later 77th Aeronautical Systems Wing), redesignated 77th Aeronautical Systems Group on 14 July 2006 and inactivated on 30 June 2010.

What AI might have "learned" from PA releases about the 1992 redesignation is (I haven't looked this up) is that some training functions that were assigned to the division may have transferred to AETC, rather than staying with the center under AFMC. Note that both the 311th Human Systems Wing and Human Systems Group/77th Aeronautical Systems Group were active at Brooks from January 2005 to October 2009. Lineagegeek (talk) 18:49, 13 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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As I think this through, unless you have personal knowledge not in any source available to you, there should be an available source for the unsourced items. Am I mistaken? I do not want to see such a good article kept at C if we can avoid it. I am not sure that omission of unsourced items here is a good idea. (I might suggest that in a different context.) If these items can not be sourced by you, I am even wondering whether I should ask another coordinator or experienced use to give it a look. I think they would come to the same conclusion, but I am concerned that I could be making a too strict interpretation, although recent practice by the bot and at least two other assessors lead me to that assessment. Thanks for a fine article in any event. Donner60 (talk) 07:40, 24 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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