Wikipedia talk:Identifying reliable sources (medicine)#Primary sources usage

Discussion about MEDRS sources in relation to acupuncture

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An editor has requested additional input on RSN for the discussion at Talk:Acupuncture#RfC: Balanced lead wording reflecting both mainstream criticism and MEDRS efficacy findings. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 22:32, 12 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@ActivelyDisinterested, if this gets re-opened, please re-post at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine, where the message is more likely to be seen.
@Hemiauchenia, please read the FAQ at the top of Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment, especially the part about opponents not getting to decide whether other editors get to ask their questions. If an RFC really needs to be closed in the future, please ask someone at at WT:RFC to handle it for you, so we don't risk any drama over who ended it. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:38, 13 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
No. I will continue to close poorly formatted RfCs with obviously biased opening statements whenever I see them. The table is in particular a flagrant violation of RFCNEUTRAL. Hemiauchenia (talk) 00:43, 13 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
As explained at Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment/FAQ, even reverting "a flagrant violation of RFCNEUTRAL" can cause avoidable drama, if the reversion is done by someone whom the OP (rightly or wrongly) perceives as part of the opposition.
The RFC process is meant to solve problems, not to create drama. Therefore, if something needs reverting, but doing the reversion yourself carries a risk of causing drama, please ask for someone else to do the reverting. The regulars at WT:RFC are usually quick to respond to requests for help. WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:14, 13 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The account who created the RfC is a SPA whose sole purpose on this website so far has been to waste volunteer time regarding this issue against talkpage consensus. They're the one creating "drama", not me. Wikipedia editors do not have infinite patience to deal with people whose sole pupose of being on an encyclopedia is to push an agenda. This will be my final comment in this thread. Hemiauchenia (talk) 11:23, 13 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The user who started the RFC is a newbie, and it is normal for newbies to only attempt to edit one or two articles/subjects. Your own first edits were all on the same general subject: Should we have called you an SPA?
Their purpose appears to be to fix a problem that they perceive as existing. You might not see it as a problem, but they do. In the interest of full disclosure, I happen to agree with the newbie that this part of the article could be improved, though IMO their proposed fixes would not have been an improvement. The point of Wikipedia:Assume good faith is to remind experienced editors that even when an editor's actual effect "has been to waste volunteer time", a newbie's intended purpose rarely is.
My point specifically with the RFC process is that you're missing the human element. What you did could make the newbie feel like Wikipedia doesn't care about procedural fairness or the appearance of fairness. If you started an RFC on something that was important to you, I'm betting that you wouldn't appreciate an opponent of your proposal shutting it down. Sure, it might be necessary to shut it down (and if they'd figured out how to add the rfc tag, then the table formatting alone would have gotten it removed), but the question at hand is whether it was necessary for you personally to shut it down, or if we could have shown a bit more of the spirit of our WP:INVOLVED values by leaving it alone long enough for someone else to have shut it down. Either way, it gets shut down. Have you thought about why you believed that it was necessary for you to be the person to shut it down? For example, do you feel like your past requests for support have been ignored too often, so you don't feel like there's any point to asking for help? WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:26, 13 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I have great sympathy for Hemiauchenia's action. Articles subject to WP:MEDRS are constantly being edited by people pushing problematic points of view not supported by appropriate sources. If the English Wikipedia is to avoid offering misleading medical advice, then the onus must on the editor who added material not supported by MEDRS-compliant sources to justify the addition, and not make editors who strive to remove it jump through overly bureaucratic hoops. Otherwise there's a real danger that good editors will avoid these areas. Peter coxhead (talk) 14:10, 14 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I have a great deal of sympathy for the action; I only disagree about whether it's best for an involved editor to take the action. Having a different editor take the same action would avoid the appearance of WP:OWNERSHIP and the risk of complaints that someone is acting as Judge, jury, and executioner. Asking an uninvolved editor to take exactly the same action does not create these problems. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:20, 14 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Notability, MEDRS and Blue zones

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A blue zone is, supposedly, a place that has an unusually high concentration of centenarians due to some environmental/diet/whatever factor. A famous preprint by a demographer rather persuasively argued that blue zones are actually an artifact of poor recordkeeping and pension fraud, and did a bunch of statistical correlations to prove his case. The preprint won an Ig Nobel and has been extensively covered in blue-chip reliable sources spanning both the medical and popular press, including the BMJ, New Scientist, The Atlantic, New York Times, etc.

However, numerous attempts to add the study to the Blue zone article have been reverted on the basis that because the original study remains a preprint, the study is not a MEDRS and cannot thus be mentioned in any shape or form, even if covered by secondary sources. To me, this seems patently illogical: the study is a) a criticism of a demographic claim, not a medical claim in itself, and b) its argument is entirely based on economic and social data, not medical data. This is even more bizarre when the term "blue zone" itself is a copyrighted corporate trademark and the article cites manifestly non-MEDRS sources like Fortune when talking about it. Could I get some second opinions on this? Asamboi (talk) 08:00, 20 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Asamboi, I suggest asking for help at Wikipedia:Fringe theories/Noticeboard and/or Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Medicine. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:02, 20 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I likely will, but first I'd like to understand if WP:MEDRS is being applied correctly here. Asamboi (talk) 21:15, 20 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]
There are special (non-MEDRS) rules for WP:PREPRINTS, so it may be irrelevant whether MEDRS is being applied correctly here.
But as it says at the top of this page, "This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Identifying reliable sources (medicine) page." If you want to talk about individual sources, the other pages will be better. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:31, 20 September 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Ivermectin as a potential cancer treatment

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Can someone weigh in on this source and content? - Hipal (talk) 01:26, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

See Talk:Ivermectin#Cancer research 2. WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:15, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Talk:Ivermectin/Archive_4#Cancer_research I think you meant. I should have looked. Thanks! --Hipal (talk) 16:14, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]
No, I meant Talk:Ivermectin#Cancer research. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:31, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

So this policy page discusses CDC and NIH as reliable biomedical orgs. Wanna notify folks here about this other convo User:Bluethricecreamman (Talk·Contribs) 15:49, 20 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]