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Wikipedia talk:Record charts#Billboard charts: consensus


Israeli Mako Hit List

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Hi, I recently saw that since May 2023 Mako publishes charts, that according to them are the first official Israeli chart. Their statement (taken from here) says: "There has never been a body in Israel that would truly measure the "power of songs" in the country and include all existing platforms: from radio, through YouTube, Spotify, Apple Music and social networks like TikTok. In the 70s and 80s, songs were rated by listeners in letters and postcards, in the 90s they upgraded to teletext, and in the 2000s, people vote online. This is while all over the world, the charts have always been based on single sales and in recent years on streaming. In other words, there has never been a real chart in Israel that was free from any manipulation by voters or editors. Until today! Mako is proud to be the first media outlet to present Israel's real parade by developing a unique algorithm that weighs the tastes of hundreds of thousands of Israelis who listen to songs every day on a variety of platforms. The data is collected, among other things, using Soundcharts."

So, if I understood correctly, it sounds like a definitely combined Israeli chart, then not only airplay but both radio+streaming... Am I correct? I would consider adding the new weeks to the singles articles in the future, but I wanted to ask here first before I begin. Greetings! Szyign (talk) 00:08, 13 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Cherry Cotton Candy looking above I guess I could ping you here :) Szyign (talk) 00:10, 13 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Szyign: It includes TikTok data, which is an aspect of several charts listed at WP:BADCHARTS. Also, just because something calls itself official does not mean that it necessarily is. How can a chart be set up and the organisation immediately say "we are the official chart of this country"? You set about adding these charts on a multitude of articles before waiting for any opinions. Fine if you thought since nobody raised objections it was okay to go ahead. But now that there are dissenting opinions, myself and @Lil-unique1:, who maybe erroneously pointed out that the list incorporates fan voting (whereas it would appear Mako, per the Mako Hit List and translated text on its website, is saying it doesn't, whereas Galgalatz etc. do), you should wait for consensus before restoring it. Skyversay (talk) 15:28, 8 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I waited for about a month and didn't get any objections, so I figured no one had a problem with it. Sorry, but your argument about "maybe they're telling the truth and maybe not" seems to be drawing conclusions in your own favour. If they have explained the methodology themselves, how else am I supposed to verify it to meet your expectations? If you look at it logically now, then by this route you can delete half of the charts currently in use, because the companies themselves have stated that this is how their methodology works, but after all we have no confirmation.... actually, I don't know where else it would come from if not from the provider? I don't understand your reasoning. Szyign (talk) 15:33, 8 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Szyign: I'm not aware of any other main charts of nations around the world that integrate TikTok trends or somehow integrate TikTok data into their calculations. I also did not say or imply anything along the lines of "maybe they're telling the truth and maybe not". I said that this chart was set up in 2023 and immediately begun saying it's the official chart of Israel. How does that work? Immediately the number one official chart based on what, because they said so? Because they say it's the first Israeli chart to integrate data from multiple metrics? Skyversay (talk) 15:37, 8 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
In my understanding of their publication - Because they say it's the first Israeli chart to integrate data from multiple metrics. As they themselves point out, previously there was no chart that included streaming + airplay data without fan votes etc. in Israel, so they claim they're the first to do so, and it seems true since there's no other chart which combines that. Szyign (talk) 15:43, 8 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, but that doesn't make it official, which was something you said in your original post. Again, integration of TikTok data is dodgy and I'm not sure of any other charts, actually official or claimed "official", that do this. Skyversay (talk) 15:47, 8 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
To be honest, I don't know how to respond to this allegation, as the article simply uses the word ‘TikTok’ without further explanation as to how it would work, so it's hard for me to say what the author had in mind. Nevertheless, all the other issues mentioned, in my opinion, were not true and lend credibility to this chart in terms of transparency and independence. Szyign (talk) 17:29, 8 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
WP:RECORDCHARTS explains what constitutes a suitable chart. Tiktok and voting is not a suitable chart methodology. Other charts have been excluded in other countries for those reasons. >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 19:21, 8 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Could you tell me where can I vote in this chart? Cause I can't really find any confirmation there's a voting for this chart in the internet. Szyign (talk) 19:47, 8 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for joining late to this conversation. I think Mako is too obscure about what they include in this chart to make it valid. In essence, they say it is a popularity chart, which means anything can be included. Typically, we focus on airplay, streaming and sales, not on popularity per se. I would therefore object to this chart being used. Muhandes (talk) 08:44, 11 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Belgian Promuvi chart

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On the page for Strong Enough, as well the peaks for Flanders and Wallonia, there is a Belgian (presumably national) chart by "Promuvi" who I’ve found nothing about. The source was taken from a Billboard Magazine issue. Is this a good chart? Frankster04 (talk) 09:31, 11 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Russian TopHit "Streaming" Chart?

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The Top 100 titled "Internet" currently only for Russia was added to the TopHit charts page this week. Along with these, charts from services such as Apple, iTunes, and Russian most known streaming services - Zvuk and Yandex Music have been added. While "All Media" chart and it's methodology seems unknown, the "Internet" chart was added in the same time as other streaming services Top 100, which to me shows that it is based on them. Should I add peaks for songs that charted on "Internet" Top 100 on singles articles like "Russia (TopHit)"? Szyign (talk) 12:09, 16 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

"The chart is formed on the basis of daily updates from Yandex.Music, VK, OK, Zvuk, Shazam, Deezer, iTunes, Apple, as well as the weekly YouTube chart in Russia," information from the site's social networks.
I think it's possible to add chart data, but we need to decide on a chart name like "Russia Streaming" or "Russia Download" or "Russia Internet." I think we can even try adding it to the Single chart template. Sanslogique (talk) 13:29, 16 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, then even better if they include all the other services :)
Yeah, in my opinion name Russia Streaming makes the best sense. I'm not sure about Russia Download cause YouTube seems to be based on views from Russian IP's I think
While Russia Internet sounds lowkey weird cause there's no other chart called like that I believe Szyign (talk) 13:46, 16 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Szyign: where did you find the methodology for the Internet chart? I could not find it anywhere. France3c0 (talk) 20:17, 17 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@France3c0 Found it, they stated it here: https://vk.com/tophitcom?w=wall-22235116_18050 Szyign (talk) 20:33, 17 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Actually I'm not sure we should use TopHit at all. I've just been reviewing their FAQs, and it suggests they have paid promotion directly with artists and radio stations. They monitor 2,500 radio stations globally which actually isn't that many considering the number of charts they publish. The pricing structure here allows artists/stations to promote music. If the chart 'provider' itself is promoting music this is a conflict of interest around commercial gain/benefit. There's nothing suggesting TopHit is International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI) affiliated. As there isn't a breakdown of which stations are monitored for each chart, we cannot actually see or understand whether the chart is fully representative of the country in question or if its just a subset of data based on commercial relationships. This is increasingly making me think its not appropriate to use for any country >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 15:06, 18 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Nowhere does it say that you can buy a charting for a song. It says about advertising, a banner on the site, sending the track to affiliated radio stations. Too hasty to conclude that the whole chart is insecure because they help promote smal artists through advertising. Szyign (talk) 22:24, 18 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
You have misread what I said. They have said they take payments to promote songs to radio. If they do this but they also publish the chart itself, there's a conflict of interest there. Additionally for the number of charts they publish, they said they monitor 2,500 radio stations globally. That isn't a big number for the number of charts they produce. It doesn't say for each chart/country how many radio stations they monitor. For all we know, they could monitor 1-2 stations for a particular country, and if those stations are only the ones they have a relationship with then this is again a conflict on interest at bias. @Ss112 what say you? >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 21:30, 21 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
There is no way they can monitor only 1-2 radios if, for example, the 1st place this week on the Kazakhstan chart has collected 1,138 radio plays, which is always dissected here: https://tophit.com/ru/chart/top/radio/hits/kz/weekly and on the singles pages. There are similar figures for other countries, it is obvious that there will be a difference between the number of plays in Kazakhstan with a population of 20 million against for example Latvia with 1.8 million. Szyign (talk) 09:41, 23 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Also "promote songs to radio" still doesn't mean there have to be a conflict of interest. They can send proposals to the radios and still publish the charts, this doesn't mean they're forcing the radios to play the songs they recieved. If you're gonna remove TopHit, then remove Polish certifications too, cause ZPAV will give you an award only if your reocrd label submits you to them. That's how ridicilous it is. TopHit is active since 20 years and they're definietly reliable source for the charts from the region. Szyign (talk) 09:53, 23 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
All industry bodies like BMI, ZPAV etc require labels to submit and verify sales. RIAA is the same in the US. Its not the same thing as the concerns I'm raising against TopHit. You've also completely missed the point and not listened to what I've said. The two specific concerns are that it does not state clearly or explicitly how many radio stations are monitored in each country. If it only monitors stations that play music it promotes then this would be a conflict of interest. TopHit, as far as I can tell, is not affiliated with IFPI, which is potentially problematic as we have no idea if they adhere to IFPI rules and standards. You've also stretched out the meaning of what I said, which was directly quoted from TopHit's website. TopHit specifically say that you can get on the TopHit charts specifically by sending your songs to them which specifically suggests that there could be chart manipulation at play. At the very least, its worth investigating and understanding the methodology. If in any of the countries where they publish a chart, they do not monitor all radio stations then in that country then it is definitely bias/inaccurate picture of song popularity, especially if they don't monitor stations where they don't have an affiliate relationship. That we do not yet know and should seek to establish. Saying that just because something has been active for 20 years mean that its correct is false - people can make a mistake all their life, it doesn't mean its not a mistake just because you didn't know it was. Also it could be that it's reliable for charts for Russia and neighbouring countries but not for all charts. I do think further investigation and clarity is warranted. >> Lil-unique1 (talk) — 22:20, 26 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I believe you are framing your own narrative around this function on Tophit, that you are talking about. I found an explanation from the official TopHit profile on VKontakte, where a step-by-step description is given of how this whole ‘promotion’ works. From what I understand, the songs are sent to the people operating radiostations, who listen to them, rate them and if they think they are suitable, they will include them on their playlists. This practice exists everywhere and it's obvious that radios all over the world get a list of suggestions that they may or may not include. In the case of tophit, however, it does not appear that anyone is forcing anyone to play these songs on the radio, they are simply being considered by radio promoters. Szyign (talk) 00:31, 27 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Billboard LyricFind charts

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Hi!

Can we get some consensus on the Billboard LyricFind chart? 'Cause I am really confused whether it is reliable or not. I am also curious and I see on X (Formerly Twitter) posting the charting of the songs on LyricFind. Although Billboard is reliable and notable too, but in LyricFind is suspicious on how the charts working. ROY is WAR Talk! 16:09, 8 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]