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This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Video games. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.
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See also Games-related deletions.
Video games-related deletions
[edit]- Abney317 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG and WP:NBIO. The article lacks significant coverage in reliable, independent secondary sources. All current references are either self-published (Twitch, Twitter), user-generated (YouTube), or directory-style listings (GDQ VODs). No independent media coverage or in-depth reporting has been found to establish notability. Subject appears notable only within a niche community. Leicesteroftime (talk) 00:47, 18 July 2025 (UTC)
- Here are some better sources https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/521780-fastest-all-cups-completion-of-mario-kart-64
- https://www.techeblog.com/mario-kart-64-skip-speedrun-bowsers-castle/
- https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2021/sep/29/play-it-faster-play-it-weirder-how-speedrunning-pushes-video-games-beyond-their-limits
- https://kotaku.com/mario-kart-64-speedrunner-sets-new-world-record-by-repe-1846254228 ILoveSmallEdits (talk) 01:28, 18 July 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Video games, and Arkansas. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 01:38, 18 July 2025 (UTC)
- Delete. The sources ILoveSmallEdits has provided above are better than those currently in the article, but still do not rise to meet WP:GNG. I've been unsuccessful in attempting to find any better sources. Weirdguyz (talk) 01:48, 18 July 2025 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Go D. Usopp (talk) 08:00, 18 July 2025 (UTC)
- Philosophical games (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Unfortunately fails WP:NEOLOGISM and WP:GNG. This is a tricky one. Let's go through it:
1) The article creator has an egregiously obvious WP:COI, authoring 8 of the 17 cited sources, including one source that is quoted substantially and summarised in-text. Significant parts of the article are uncited and pretty obviously coming from the author's philosophical opus.
2) The question then with WP:NEOLOGISM is: do the other sources define or discus a "philosophical game"? The nomenclature is not used in any of the other sources I can access. This suggests it is non-notable and a misguided attempt to cover a general exploration of philosophy as explored vastly through the lens of the video game medium rather than a clear treatment of "philosophical games" as a discrete category. It is just too broad. By the taxonomy given, most contemporary narrative video games might be said to have philosophical dilemmas and dimensions. The writing is a noble and good exercise. But a Wikipedia page is not the best outlet for that exercise, because ...
3) The article is inappropriate for encyclopedic coverage, waxing on like an WP:ESSAY instead of clearly and articulately defining the subject matter. This strongly suggests it's both an unfocused exercise of the article creator and not a concrete, definable subject matter worth encyclopedic definition. VRXCES (talk) 06:51, 17 July 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Video games-related deletion discussions. VRXCES (talk) 06:51, 17 July 2025 (UTC)
- Delete for WP:TNT. There are obvious WP:COI issues - you obviously can't write a WP page based on your own work fairly. Also many of the paragraphs are unreferenced suggesting WP:OR. There appear to be references but someone else needs to have a stab at writing this page. JMWt (talk) 07:49, 17 July 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Philosophy and Games. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 10:58, 17 July 2025 (UTC)
- Delete Written like an essay. Might be notable under "Philosophy in video games" or something, but it would need a full rewrite regardless as it's currently unencyclopedic. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 11:11, 17 July 2025 (UTC)
- Delete – or maybe add (cleaned-up) content under some video game topic/article, esp b/c SEP (and other phil lit) uses games to mean the usual compsci/logic games (not video games). - Asdfjrjjj (talk) 19:17, 17 July 2025 (UTC)
- Speedy delete oh look another AI slop article Metallurgist (talk) 20:16, 17 July 2025 (UTC)
- Out of Gas (video game) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Disputed PROD, but PROD did not give any reviews that might make the article pass WP:GNG. Unsourced and seems to completely fail WP:GNG. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 04:12, 17 July 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Video games-related deletion discussions. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 04:12, 17 July 2025 (UTC)
- Comment: There are 3 external links listed in the article, but these sources are all directory-esque game listings, and there are no critics that have reviewed the game on those websites; only a few user-generated reviews are available.
- As far as I can tell Allgame is the only source where a critic could've reviewed it (we'd need an archive to make sure since the website has been down for 11+ years), but I'm not sure if a single source reviewing it is enough to satisfy GNG. ApexParagon (talk) 15:00, 17 July 2025 (UTC)
- Comment: Not convinced there's enough coverage of this one to meet GNG. Nintendo Power reviewed it as part of a roundup of new games. Game Pro (UK) gave it a preview but it doesn't look like they reviewed it. Retro Gamer had a single screenshot of it! Adam Sampson (talk) 23:22, 17 July 2025 (UTC)
- Conflict (video game) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Disputed PROD with the rationale that it had one review from Nintendo Power so other reviews must exist. However, besides the Nintendo Power review, and one review in Ultimate Nintendo: Guide to the NES Library, others in reliable sources don't seem to exist, so it doesn't pass WP:GNG. Unsourced since its inception. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 02:29, 17 July 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Video games-related deletion discussions. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 02:29, 17 July 2025 (UTC)
- Keep, just about? I found a preview and lukewarm review in Famitsu; they named it in katakana as コンフリクト, so that might be a useful search term for other Japanese reviews. Adam Sampson (talk) 03:57, 17 July 2025 (UTC)
- That is a good find. That said, the Nintendo Power mentions of that era almost seem like glorified advertisements, so I won't withdraw the AfD. WP:INDISCRIMINATE still seems problematic with regards to this game even if GNG may (possibly) be passed. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 04:42, 17 July 2025 (UTC)
- Yes, I have the same concern about Nintendo Power - as Nintendo's own magazine, with Nintendo extracting licensing fees for anything published for the NES, they were clearly very reluctant to say anything negative about a game (in this case two of the Famitsu reviews complain about the game being slow-paced; the NP review mentions it but spins it as an advantage). I'd be happier if there was another more independent review out there. Adam Sampson (talk) 12:44, 17 July 2025 (UTC)
- That is a good find. That said, the Nintendo Power mentions of that era almost seem like glorified advertisements, so I won't withdraw the AfD. WP:INDISCRIMINATE still seems problematic with regards to this game even if GNG may (possibly) be passed. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 04:42, 17 July 2025 (UTC)
- Zack Scoular (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Only sources in article and found in WP:BEFORE are WP:ROUTINE news clippings, with which one can only make little more than a database entry of statistics and not an encyclopedic article, thus failing WP:NOT. ―"Ghost of Dan Gurney" (hihi) 14:18, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Video games, Motorsport, Australia, and New Zealand. ―"Ghost of Dan Gurney" (hihi) 14:18, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. ―"Ghost of Dan Gurney" (hihi) 14:22, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose Finished runner-up in a Formula Regional championship and a multiple-time race winner at Formula Three level—fairly notable as a junior driver. WP:SIGCOV is found here: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9]. There are several race reports at the level that go beyond
trivial mentions
. MB2437 22:19, 16 July 2025 (UTC)- I'll make an SA table when a I'm home from work but many of these are interviews with the subject which would not be independent, and/or focus on other topics, such as the championship he's competing in, or the 00r0 Motorsport video game team. ―"Ghost of Dan Gurney" (hihi) 22:59, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- Comment I'm not !voting until I read other opinions, but I think this is a good example of bare notability. Under different interpretations of WP:GNG, I think the big determining factor is whether or not interviews are considered as independent- I've heard differing opinions between AfD and AfC.
My source breakdown:
- Formula Scout [10], [11] I think are both GNG compliant, but are on the shorter side. Since it's the same outlet, we can count that as one source.
- VelocityNews article about going to Europe ([12]); I think this is GNG compliant, but others may have concerns about independence.
- NZ Herald [13]. I can't view this because of the paywall, but given that this is a notable organization (The New Zealand Herald), I'd assume it's good. However, I don't want to make assertions about it unless I can actually read it.
- Feeder Series interview [14], good if we are allowing interviews.
- Stuff comes from a notable outlet, but once again is an interview.
Main determining factor in my opinion is the NZ Herald article and whether or not interviews count as acceptable under GNG. GalacticVelocity08 (talk) 01:31, 17 July 2025 (UTC)
- Flamingo (YouTuber) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Currently zero in-depth references from reliable sources. Searches did not turn up enough in-depth coverage from independent, reliable sources to support meeting WP:GNG. Onel5969 TT me 09:39, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People and California. Shellwood (talk) 10:27, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- Delete Individual apparently has a lot of YouTube subscribers, but no indepth independent coverage Nayyn (talk) 10:35, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Video games, Internet, and North Carolina. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 10:56, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- Delete: Source 4 is a RS, but mentions this person along with other winners. I'm not sure the award is notable either... In any case, the rest of the sources given are non-RS, or passing mentions. I don't see anything other than the sources already in the article. Oaktree b (talk) 13:39, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- Delete: No idea how to find Flamingo instead of flamingos, thus I couldn't find anything good either. Aaron Liu (talk) 15:09, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- Delete Just another common Roblox YouTuber. Nathannah • 📮 15:24, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- Would disagree; he has a top-of-the-year award. Aaron Liu (talk) 15:27, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- It's literally cited to one of his videos. A primary source. And knowing kids awards, they usually have ballot stuffing that would make Mike Lindell's head explode. Nathannah • 📮 18:32, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- No, no awards are cited to his videos. Flamingo (YouTuber)#Awards. Roblox is much bigger than a children's platform. Aaron Liu (talk) 20:55, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- It's still thought of mainly as a place for children. Nathannah • 📮 22:37, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- It's still an award recognized by independent RS. Aaron Liu (talk) 22:38, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- 🤦🏻♀️ Then add that reliable source, please. It's currently sourced to his own video, which is wholly ineligible for use here. Nathannah • 📮 21:23, 17 July 2025 (UTC)e here.
- Please point out where an award is sourced to his own video. From what I see, it's currently sourced to a subsidiary of VentureBeat—which is GRel—while even the award I didn't talk about is sourced to Roblox. Aaron Liu (talk) 01:52, 18 July 2025 (UTC)
- 🤦🏻♀️ Then add that reliable source, please. It's currently sourced to his own video, which is wholly ineligible for use here. Nathannah • 📮 21:23, 17 July 2025 (UTC)e here.
- It's still an award recognized by independent RS. Aaron Liu (talk) 22:38, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- It's still thought of mainly as a place for children. Nathannah • 📮 22:37, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- No, no awards are cited to his videos. Flamingo (YouTuber)#Awards. Roblox is much bigger than a children's platform. Aaron Liu (talk) 20:55, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- It's literally cited to one of his videos. A primary source. And knowing kids awards, they usually have ballot stuffing that would make Mike Lindell's head explode. Nathannah • 📮 18:32, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- The most subscribed Roblox YouTuber of all time, actually. Blubewwy (talk) 20:49, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- That absolutely needs a proper and neutral source, and no YouTube is not a source. I'm not including links to our sourcing guidelines because I just like seeing things in blue. 22:36, 16 July 2025 (UTC) Nathannah • 📮 22:36, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- Would disagree; he has a top-of-the-year award. Aaron Liu (talk) 15:27, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- Delete. Believe me, I have tried to find sourcing for him before. For a while there I always viewed him as one of the higher end gaming YouTubers that didn't have an article. But that's for good reason. Hopefully one day it works out but for now he fails notability. λ NegativeMP1 15:49, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- Restore back to draft. I'm pretty sure the article was moved to mainspace by someone who didn't even actually submit it to be reviewed first, so it was not ready for mainspace at all. Let it go back to being a draft so sources can continue to be gathered. Blubewwy (talk) 20:48, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- drafty/do not delete; I don't want this deleted just turn to draft instead. freesucrose (talk) 21:18, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- There is a draft article verson of the page, but the main space page should definitely be deleted since YouTubers are rarely notable. 2600:1700:6180:6290:E84C:192:F4EB:AF1E (talk) 04:19, 17 July 2025 (UTC)
- Delete. YouTubers are rarely notable. I don't see any reliable sources in the article. 2600:1700:6180:6290:E84C:192:F4EB:AF1E (talk) 04:19, 17 July 2025 (UTC)
- Delete — a lot of primary non-reliable sources are his only coverage. MayhemStoppingBy (talk) 19:54, 17 July 2025 (UTC)
- Delete — no reliable sources and the ones that are lack information for it to be an independent article. LazarEpic (talk) 05:00, 18 July 2025 (UTC)
- Mycat (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Seems to be a clearly self-promotional page created by a WP:SPA that handily fails WP:NBIO, and the author has been demonstrating WP:OWN behavior by reverting any tags applied to the article, so I was forced to bring it to people's attention. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 22:15, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People and Video games. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 22:15, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- Delete Yeah, definitely doesn't pass notability. This page reads more like a software index than any sort of page with value to an encyclopedia. And my own WP:BEFORE search doesn't turn up anything. λ NegativeMP1 15:47, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- Delete per nom Vegantics (talk) 20:16, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- Delete per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Steve AJ Broad. Author should use WP:DRAFT instead of creating similar articles. IgelRM (talk) 22:02, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- Pixonic (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Apparently only has 2 games according to their website. Fails WP:Company. Open to a Merge with My.Games and placing it in a new subsidiaries section. If it's parent company is not notable, then delete this and I will consider a discussion on the parent company. Servite et contribuere (talk) 16:41, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Video games, Companies, Cyprus, Netherlands, and Russia. Servite et contribuere (talk) 16:41, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- Merge with My.Games. I personally am 50/50 on whether that article's subject is notable, but it needs a major rewrite anyway. If My.Games is notable, then I doubt Pixonic would be under WP:INHERITORG. Merging the two articles (and expanding coverage using reliable sources) may help ascertain notability. Gommeh 🎮 18:05, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: "Abandonware" is a loaded term. Strictly defined it means software that is not presently being sold directly by a publisher, but it is used solely in the defense of software piracy, with the connotation that all such software is "abandoned" and copyright restrictions no longer apply to it (which is completely untrue). If that were the only problem we could just rename the category "Video games not presently being sold directly by a publisher", but the category is also excessively large and impractical to keep up-to-date, especially because the removal of a game from the marketplace is rarely accompanied by any sort of announcement. Martin IIIa (talk) 00:13, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- With that rationale, we could nominate Category:Indie games too? It needs strict criteria but deletion seems too much, Keep. IgelRM (talk) 22:05, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Video games-related deletion discussions. Martin IIIa (talk) 00:30, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- Delete Fails WP:NONDEF. Also too overly broad as a secondary concern. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 01:00, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- Delete per WP:SUBJECTIVECAT. Although this category currently includes two of my favourite games of all time, labelling them "abandonware" is unfortunately subjective. It may be de facto true that the original owner will not do anything to invest in developing or supporting game anymore, but that doesn't mean that legally speaking it is now fair game (pun intended) to throw the source code online for old fans to enjoy (even though I'm strongly inclined to condone that if the owner makes no effort to make money off of it anymore, e.g. by putting it on Steam; I hardly regard it as "piracy" when you make practically impossible for willing consumers to give you money). I don't think the size of the category is a problem, nor that it cannot meet WP:DEFINING; it just cannot be given an objective definition of "abandonment" in anything other than practical and financial terms. But without legal terms, there is no clear threshold. NLeeuw (talk) 04:13, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- Heartbound (video game) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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The main reasons for deletion outlined: The large majority of this article stems from the user thorwitch, who can very reasonably be assumed to be the creator of the game itself. Other names match with those of moderators of the creators livestreams. Additional evidence is the fact, that this article was initially created even months before an early-access release and just very shortly after the project was added to steam, the page of which hat gathered no attention what so ever at that time. Just one single player for months after this article was created. This leads me to the conviction that this article should be deleted for the further following reasons: The sources are nearly entirely self provided (refer to the games home- or steam-page) or news articles are simply interviews with the creator. Secondly this game has hardly any relevance and shouldn’t clutter Wikipedia. It hasn’t gotten a full release despite supposedly being in development for 10 years, has an average playtime of 2,6 hours but most importantly: It has an average of at most 5 ! daily active players, with a one day peak of 116 players right after early access launch, dropping to 15 the following month. There are tens of thousands of games like that.— Preceding unsigned comment added by TheDigamma (talk • contribs) 00:02, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Video games and United States of America. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 01:09, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- Comment I would like to see an actual source analysis here or proof that the coverage the game has received is truly insufficient. A game's player count doesn't mean anything towards Wikipedia's notability guidelines, and interviews - assuming they also provide standard coverage of the game and aren't 100% an interview - can help out with notability on a case by case basis. λ NegativeMP1 01:34, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- Delete While the nomination has sections that are not based on Wikipedia policy (being vaporware doesn't matter if it's still notable) the actual reliable sources of the article are slim. I could only find this and this, which doesn't pass the GNG threshold, while the rest are interviews. Thus, the page seems to fail WP:GNG regardless of its more irrelevant issues. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 02:18, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- Keep: There appears to be enough significant coverage in reliable sources to meet WP:GNG. There is coverage from both the sources mentioned above, Rock Paper Shotgun and IGN, which are two of the largest gaming news outlets. Additionally there is coverage from GeekWire, the title of
"Why the developers behind PAX 10 game 'Heartbound' live stream their production process"
may imply superficial coverage, but 10-13 paragraphs, a majority of the article, are specifically about the game. I don't believe that COI, vaporware, relevance, player count, etc. are valid reasons for deletion in this case. fifteen thousand two hundred twenty four (talk) 03:03, 14 July 2025 (UTC)- GeekWire is not listed as a reliable source at WP:VG/S, nor on the overall list of perennial sources on Wikipedia, so I am unfamiliar about just how commonly used it is in tech articles. A large amount of it appears to be sponsored content, so I am dubious as to its reliability. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 04:05, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- They have an editorial team, the article is attributed to Thomas Wilde who seems to be their "Videogames Guy", I spot-checked the author's other published articles and they look to be non-promotional and reasonable reporting.
- I see no evidence that their coverage of Heartbound is sponsored. I checked the latest ten articles listed under "Latest News" and none appear to be sponsored, so I'm unsure about what constitutes a large amount. GeekWire does have sponsored content policy here, and I was able to find properly labeled sponsored content.
- Not being on WP:RSP isn't an indicator of unreliability (I'm pretty sure most entries at VG/S aren't on there either!), and GeekWire's absence from VG/S isn't unexpected, video game coverage is a minority of their overall reporting. fifteen thousand two hundred twenty four (talk) 04:56, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- Counterargument to the validity of the sources: I have to disagree heavily on the IGN coverage put forth as argument against deletion. It is not significant due to the following reasons: The article itself largely consists of quotes/interview from the developers, even if they are sometimes concealed in indirect speech; and the commentary on the game by IGN, which suggests some editorial independence, often matches word for word with the marketing material on the games steam page. (The steam page is also older than the article, so the “direction of copying“ is clear.)
- Now one coverage one might consider significant is the supposed mentioning of the game by esteemed games YouTube critic “MatPat”, yet it actually points to the game’s insignificance, as “MatPat” confuses gameplay footage of this game for one of a larger more well known game, when covering said larger game. TheDigamma (talk) 16:31, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- Counterargument to significance not being required: Maybe I am not too familiar with Wikipedia criteria on the subject of relevance, but the fact that there are thousands upon thousands of games on steam https://steamdb.info/charts/?tagid=5673 which have been purchased/played more and do not have a Wikipedia page should at least be somewhat factored in whether the topic is notable enough. Incidentally I seem to find some games high on the list, whose articles had been deleted one among many being e.g. “Cafee Master Story” .
- Additionally the game doesn’t have a community maintained wiki (like a lot of other games, who’s pages have been deleted), which again doesn’t suggest notability.
- One could argue that games that provided inspiration for others or determined a genre, even when they didn’t sell well or went largely unnoticed by consumers, are notable but that is not the case here. As agreed upon this game is vaporware. So even though there could be notable vaporware together with the two things mentioned above, this suggest un-notability. TheDigamma (talk) 16:53, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
"Maybe I am not too familiar with Wikipedia criteria on the subject of relevance"
– Correct, and its not "relevance" but WP:Notability. The absence of articles for other games (WP:OTHERSTUFFDOESNTEXIST), a youtube critic's confusion, release status, the presence or absence of a community wiki, etc. none of these add or detract from notability. General notability is established by the existence of significant coverage in reliable sources.- Your implication that IGN copied from the steam page does not appear to be correct, the IGN article is from January 2017 (archive), the earliest snapshot of the steam page is from five months later in June 2017 (archive) which matches the official website for Heartbound: January, no steam mention, late June, steam mentioned. In January the kickstarter hadn't even concluded. It would appear more likely that Pirate Software copied from IGN (the earliest snapshot does quote IGN directly), not the other way around! fifteen thousand two hundred twenty four (talk) 18:37, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- You know this exists, right? https://heartbound.fandom.com/wiki/Heartbound_Wiki Tytrox (talk) 13:31, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- Forgot to add the other wiki link which is the official wiki, maintained by the community, which can easily be found on Google. https://heartbound.piratesoftware.wiki/wiki/Main_Page Tytrox (talk) 14:05, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- it doesn’t matter for GNG any way but: This supposed wiki in fandom has 150 pages, more than half of which are empty. The others that are filled with just at most a few sentences by the same few people. This is mirrored on the developers website, while mostly not having received edits or improvements in years. That is not a maintained community wiki. TheDigamma (talk) 02:12, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- GeekWire is not listed as a reliable source at WP:VG/S, nor on the overall list of perennial sources on Wikipedia, so I am unfamiliar about just how commonly used it is in tech articles. A large amount of it appears to be sponsored content, so I am dubious as to its reliability. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 04:05, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- Comment: If Heartbound were to fail GNG (or even if it's considered to scrape past GNG ref WP:PAGEDECIDE), there's likely enough to pivot to a bio on Thor which incorporates RS coverage of his various activities. In addition to Heartbound reviews, he won Streamer Awards in 2023 and 2024 (as Pirate Software), and has recently achieved significant heat for his opposition to Stop Killing Games. On the other hand, such a page is likely to be a magnet for BLPVIO. ~Hydronium~Hydroxide~(Talk)~ 05:25, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- Delete Poorly sourced article of a non-notable game that has been in early access for years. Hypnôs (talk) 20:58, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- Comment "early access for years" is not a reason for failure of notability. Plenty of AAA games have been in development for a long time yet are still here. Star Citizen and Concord are 2 polarising examples of a game still in development for over a decade, and a game shutdown within days of release after nearly a decade of development. -- Tytrox (talk) 07:48, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- Delete. I agree with Zxcvbnm / with others saying the existing reviews are thinly veiled interviews. There's sparse review coverage, but frankly if the game has been in early access for over 5 years, that's scraping the bottom of the barrell – it certainly doesn't represent significant coverage. The reviews that do exist simply aren't substantive; they are years old. Of the more recent coverage, the game isn't even the explicit subject. Concerning the Streamer Awards: these are borderline WP:USERG and don't contribute towards notability in the absence of other good sourcing. The playable cow in Mario Kart is more notable than this game. — ImaginesTigers (talk) 20:18, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- Delete. I have only found two sources that suggest notability: [15] [16] As is, the only thing in the article right now that could constitute sigcov is the IGN preview (for Reception at least), and even then, it's interview content. Spilled is not a reliable source, nor is Dualshockers or Gameskinny. Judging by the fact that it has only had three sources in a decade, it feels like it will likely not get more of note. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 20:28, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
DeleteComment: The fact that the subject has been upcoming for a long time is no argument for deletion (Prey 2 was in development for a long time and was cancelled, but is still notable; WP:ITSOLD). I have compiled a source assess table, although I have excluded all clear primary sources such as from developer himself (on own websites), Steam, and Steam adjacent citations.
Source | Independent? | Reliable? | Significant coverage? | Count source toward GNG? |
---|---|---|---|---|
Paek, Jessica (2019-01-10). "Thor, Pirate Software: Leaving AAA to go Indie". Game Developer. Retrieved 2022-06-10.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
✘ No |
Welhouse, Zach (October 21, 2019). "Heartbound Interview". RPGamer. Retrieved 2022-07-02.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
✘ No |
Wilde, Thomas (2019-08-20). "Why the developers behind PAX 10 game 'Heartbound' live stream their production process". GeekWire. Retrieved 2022-07-02.
|
~ partial interview | ![]() |
![]() |
~ Partial |
"PirateSoftware releases tiny Heartbound update to dodge Steam abandonment tag". Spilled. 2025-03-27. Retrieved 2025-06-05.
|
![]() |
![]() |
~ short article | ✘ No |
Contaldi, Lou (2019-01-05). "Undertale Creator and Game Theory's MatPat Clash on Twitter Over Misleading Heartbound Stream". DualShockers. Retrieved 2022-07-01.
|
~ likely, but unreliability makes this questionable | ![]() |
~ mostly series of tweets, tabloid-esque? | ✘ No |
Jagneaux, David (January 27, 2017). "Heartbound First Hands-On Preview: Could This Be the Next Undertale?". IGN. Retrieved March 3, 2017.
|
~ partial interview | ![]() |
![]() |
~ Partial |
Bonilla, Angelina (February 25, 2017). "Pirate Software Talks about Heartbound's Journey of Emotion". gameskinny.com. Retrieved March 3, 2017.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
✘ No |
"The Best Indie Games on Game Jolt". GameJolt. Archived from the original on October 1, 2018. Retrieved October 3, 2018.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
✘ No |
Hogarty, Steve (2019-01-15). "Premature Evaluation: Heartbound". Rock, Paper, Shotgun. Retrieved 2025-07-14.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
✔ Yes |
"Heartbound Demo Download". softpedia. 2019-03-04. Retrieved 2025-07-15.
|
![]() |
![]() |
![]() |
✔ Yes |
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}. |
This does not pass GNG. I have tried extensively to find possible reliable sources on it. There's Rock Paper Shotgun coverage, but the rest of it seems to be about Steam's relatively recent "abandoned game warning" feature, and/or the rest are small mentions and no significant, independent, and reliable coverage of the game itself. There is some coverage about the game's developer (and this includes some coverage of the game too), but not the game. But, this is a discussion about the game, not the developer, thus the subject fails GNG.WhoAteMyButter (🌷talk│🌻contribs) 21:25, 14 July 2025 (UTC)- Thanks for compiling this into a table, I think your assessment of the sources is reasonable, even if I disagree on some of the partial interview parts. Could you also include the Rock Paper Shotgun coverage in the table as well, or is there a reason its not listed? fifteen thousand two hundred twenty four (talk) 21:44, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- Thank you, amended. RPS does count towards GNG certainly, but GNG requires multiple such sources. WhoAteMyButter (🌷talk│🌻contribs) 22:33, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- There's also the Softpedia source posted above. Cukie Gherkin (talk) 00:12, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- I've changed my mind and decided to retract my comment and keep the source assess table up. WhoAteMyButter (🌷talk│🌻contribs) 02:53, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- Have you looked into the softpedia “source”? It is less than nothing. The website is a hub to download software. The “source” is literally just an alternative download link for the demo. TheDigamma (talk) 13:31, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- They did, that's why they identified that Softpedia wasn't providing much significant coverage. Also, while they do provide a download, Softpedia has an editorial team and is considered a reliable source. Cukie Gherkin (talk) 18:02, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- But anyone can upload, right? TheDigamma (talk) 04:07, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- They did, that's why they identified that Softpedia wasn't providing much significant coverage. Also, while they do provide a download, Softpedia has an editorial team and is considered a reliable source. Cukie Gherkin (talk) 18:02, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- Have you looked into the softpedia “source”? It is less than nothing. The website is a hub to download software. The “source” is literally just an alternative download link for the demo. TheDigamma (talk) 13:31, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- I've changed my mind and decided to retract my comment and keep the source assess table up. WhoAteMyButter (🌷talk│🌻contribs) 02:53, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- There's also the Softpedia source posted above. Cukie Gherkin (talk) 00:12, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- Thank you, amended. RPS does count towards GNG certainly, but GNG requires multiple such sources. WhoAteMyButter (🌷talk│🌻contribs) 22:33, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- Keep None of the arguments made by the nominator are within Wikipedia's policies to decide revocation of notability. While the nominator's account is 3 years old, it's made ZERO contributions to wikipedia AT ALL until the last 24 hours, solely to take down this page. Likely a sockpuppet or has a vendetta. -- Tytrox (talk) 07:33, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- The solution to a non-policy-based AFD submission is not a non-policy-based AFD reply; two wrongs don't make a right. If you believe that there's enough sources to keep the article, make an argument based on that. novov talk edits 11:58, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- Any interpretation of my opinion to keep the page being not a valid argument, does not and should not make the nominated reasons any more valid when it doesn't fit wikipedia's criteria to so. "2 wrongs don't make a right" perhaps, but that logical should then invalidate the whole deletion proposal. Tytrox (talk) 13:45, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- The initial nomination may be weak in terms of policy, but other editors have made reasonable policy-based deletion arguments concerning notability after. A closer will consider the strength of all arguments and weigh them appropriately, do you have a policy-based reason to keep the article that a closer could consider? fifteen thousand two hundred twenty four (talk) 14:24, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- Any interpretation of my opinion to keep the page being not a valid argument, does not and should not make the nominated reasons any more valid when it doesn't fit wikipedia's criteria to so. "2 wrongs don't make a right" perhaps, but that logical should then invalidate the whole deletion proposal. Tytrox (talk) 13:45, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- I have been a long time Wikipedia reader on my phone, hence the age of the account. I came across this article a few days ago because my Reddit front page had a post about this game not living up to its promises, I wanted to read up on the Wikipedia article, yet found it and the general coverage very lacking. When digging deeper I found other users pointing out various discrepancies. When reading the sources I came to the conclusion that this article was basically solely based on the developer himself and fabricated with many circle sources and errors. I found it so upsetting that I decided to start a deletion discussion, thinking “GNG” is more restrictive. Through this whole process I have been very upfront (in fact initially asking for help) on that I don’t know the nuances of Wikipedias rules, but found this article to be clearly very fishy. I have now learned that the English language Wikipedia is far less restrictive in what articles can be about (compared to German) and that COI and falsehoods are not arguments for deletion. Yet the argument for notability is very thin still. Lets focus on discussing that and I hope people will refrain from further personal attacks. TheDigamma (talk) 13:25, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- Why did you straight away opt for page deletion then, when you said yourself above "maybe I am not too familiar with wikipedia criteria on the subject of relevance"? It's basically admission of failure to understand policy. Why not opt to improve on the page? This is why you could be seen as a troll on this, even if unwittingly so. Tytrox (talk) 13:40, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- Please refrain from further derogatory personal attacks and try to prove GNG, thank you. As I already stated I firmly believe this game is not notable enough and that this page was created as a marketing ploy. If people can find actual significant sources and rewrite the article, they may. TheDigamma (talk) 14:08, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- It's not an attack, you said yourself you don't understand the policy. Why did you nominate deletion on a policy you don't understand? You've invalidated your whole argument yourself. No one's stopping you from helping improve it yourself, in fact it would be welcomed, yet here we are. Tytrox (talk) 14:16, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- Your comments are not productive. If you have sources proving notability, please let us know. If you want to continue discussing myself, do so on my talk page. TheDigamma (talk) 14:39, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- That's your interpretation which does not validate your nomination. You've made a number of errors in your nomination for deletion. You said there's no community maintained wiki sites when there's in fact 2 of them that can be googled. Tytrox (talk) 14:48, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- This is plain wrong. TheDigamma (talk) 14:54, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- The receipts are right there. Tytrox (talk) 22:07, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- Sorry, you are just lying. First as we learned, wikis are not important for GNG. Then this supposed wiki in fandom has 150 pages, more than half of which are empty. The others that are filled with just at most a few sentences by the same few people. This is mirrored on the developers website, while mostly not having received edits or improvements in years. That is not a maintained community wiki. TheDigamma (talk) 02:10, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- 2 edits on the official wiki inside the last 30 days according to here: https://heartbound.piratesoftware.wiki/wiki/Special:RecentChanges?limit=500&days=30&enhanced=1&urlversion=2 Tytrox (talk) 02:21, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- You are grasping at straws man, it’s getting hilarious. This “official mirrors” last changes you linked are of the automated IP ban list. And come to the topic at some point: You have now send messages upon messages yet not provided a single point towards credible sources that show notability of this game. TheDigamma (talk) 04:06, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- 2 edits on the official wiki inside the last 30 days according to here: https://heartbound.piratesoftware.wiki/wiki/Special:RecentChanges?limit=500&days=30&enhanced=1&urlversion=2 Tytrox (talk) 02:21, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- Sorry, you are just lying. First as we learned, wikis are not important for GNG. Then this supposed wiki in fandom has 150 pages, more than half of which are empty. The others that are filled with just at most a few sentences by the same few people. This is mirrored on the developers website, while mostly not having received edits or improvements in years. That is not a maintained community wiki. TheDigamma (talk) 02:10, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- The receipts are right there. Tytrox (talk) 22:07, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- This is plain wrong. TheDigamma (talk) 14:54, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- That's your interpretation which does not validate your nomination. You've made a number of errors in your nomination for deletion. You said there's no community maintained wiki sites when there's in fact 2 of them that can be googled. Tytrox (talk) 14:48, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- Your comments are not productive. If you have sources proving notability, please let us know. If you want to continue discussing myself, do so on my talk page. TheDigamma (talk) 14:39, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- It's not an attack, you said yourself you don't understand the policy. Why did you nominate deletion on a policy you don't understand? You've invalidated your whole argument yourself. No one's stopping you from helping improve it yourself, in fact it would be welcomed, yet here we are. Tytrox (talk) 14:16, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- Please refrain from further derogatory personal attacks and try to prove GNG, thank you. As I already stated I firmly believe this game is not notable enough and that this page was created as a marketing ploy. If people can find actual significant sources and rewrite the article, they may. TheDigamma (talk) 14:08, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- Why did you straight away opt for page deletion then, when you said yourself above "maybe I am not too familiar with wikipedia criteria on the subject of relevance"? It's basically admission of failure to understand policy. Why not opt to improve on the page? This is why you could be seen as a troll on this, even if unwittingly so. Tytrox (talk) 13:40, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- Please assume good faith. Also, you can partake in Wikipedia's processes without fully understanding them. That's how editors learn. λ NegativeMP1 16:28, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- How can we assume good faith when the nominator's errors have been pointed out but they take it as a personal attack? They made claim there didn't seem to be any community maintained wikis, as ammo for suggestion of lack of notability, when 2 can be found via google? If they want notability, they need to dig enough before nominating pages for deletion. They could have done a WP:AFI instead to save on this drama. Tytrox (talk) 22:49, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- The editor's behavior can be wrong and yours can at the same time. While they weren't following policy, you also made a personal attack by calling them "likely a sockpuppet" without actual evidence as such besides your own belief. In other words, the editor breaking the rules does not make your own rulebreaking justified in this scenario. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 23:49, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- It was a suggestion of possible sockpuppetry based on the correlation I noted. They since explained their circumstances on account activity, and I've not pursued that accusation any further. The rest of it doesn't stack. Tytrox (talk) 23:59, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- The editor's behavior can be wrong and yours can at the same time. While they weren't following policy, you also made a personal attack by calling them "likely a sockpuppet" without actual evidence as such besides your own belief. In other words, the editor breaking the rules does not make your own rulebreaking justified in this scenario. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 23:49, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- How can we assume good faith when the nominator's errors have been pointed out but they take it as a personal attack? They made claim there didn't seem to be any community maintained wikis, as ammo for suggestion of lack of notability, when 2 can be found via google? If they want notability, they need to dig enough before nominating pages for deletion. They could have done a WP:AFI instead to save on this drama. Tytrox (talk) 22:49, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- The solution to a non-policy-based AFD submission is not a non-policy-based AFD reply; two wrongs don't make a right. If you believe that there's enough sources to keep the article, make an argument based on that. novov talk edits 11:58, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- Thanks for compiling this into a table, I think your assessment of the sources is reasonable, even if I disagree on some of the partial interview parts. Could you also include the Rock Paper Shotgun coverage in the table as well, or is there a reason its not listed? fifteen thousand two hundred twenty four (talk) 21:44, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- Delete I left a comment asking for a more thorough source analysis earlier, but now that that's been done, I find the notability of this game far too flimsy. Even if something just scrapes by notability, I believe that it would also have to be a page with some sort of value to exist, and I can't see this one having much value assuming if it stuck to the reliable sources provided here. There's not enough meat here. λ NegativeMP1 15:54, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- Delete per all. The source analysis leans closer to WP:TRIVIALMENTIONs, which edge towards interview style content rather than independent coverage. Doesn't meet WP:GNG. Shooterwalker (talk) 18:15, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- Delete Significant efforts have been made and visible under the editorial history to omit information pertaining to the development of the game, the developer's public statements on his personal attitude towards the game, as well as recent criticisms from legitimate sources on the game's development.
- Editorial history can be found in this link: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Heartbound_(video_game)&action=history
- Additionally, there are not sufficient independent sources cited in the page.
- The page has received the following:
- Minor edits: 19.9%
- Unregistered edits: 34.9%
- Bot edits: 3.7%
- With an average edits per-user being 2.3 and average edits per day being 0.1, there is suspect manipulation:
- Thorwich, the known alias of Jason "Thor" Hall, has a 19.4% authorship bias - this is clearly a conflict of interest Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard
- Thorwich also has the most total edits at 20.7%, and is the third largest contributor to the page
- LogosNoLogos (talk) 06:26, 18 July 2025 (UTC)
- Puppet Combo (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Fails WP:NCORP. Lots of WP:REFBOMBing, but significant coverage is insufficient. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 20:56, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Video games, Companies, and New York. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 20:56, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- i dont see why this would make it required to delete, an indie game studio has enough merit to have a wikipage 2A02:E040:14FD:8E00:2829:3F26:6013:AE55 (talk) 18:12, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- the article and subject matter is of notability as they not only have a long game log but have infact caused a whole type of horror game to become a mainstay, heck there stuff is even on the switch. they have plenty of sources listed and the article itself seams well written and in-depth so i don't get what your issue is? 93.107.85.135 (talk) 18:35, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- It is stated on the rationale, "Fails WP:NCORP". Something having many sources or being long and detailed does not mean those sources amount to significant coverage in reliable sources. A company making numerous notable games also does not mean they themselves are notable, notability is WP:NOTINHERITED. This is a common misunderstanding. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 23:52, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- Keep - Sorry but i have to vote to keep the page live. There are various sources on the Puppet Combo page that are noteworthy and gives the page a leg to stand on. Granted, the page could be better structured but i believe someone with interest about Puppet Combo will improve the page. That is just my opinion. Roberth Martinez (talk) 03:57, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- It would help to state what WP:THREE sources you believe give the article standalone notability, so this comes off as less WP:SOURCESEXIST. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 15:14, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- From my observation, i saw these sources which give Puppet Combo a leg to stand on: Destructoid; Rock, Paper, Shotgun, VG247, IGN, Vice, The Verge, and PC Gamer. Roberth Martinez (talk) 21:46, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- Unlikely for WP:NCORP but perhaps it could be changed to WP:NARTIST. IgelRM (talk) 22:11, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- Assessing sources in article, borrowing table from WP:SIRS:
Source Significant? Independent? Reliable?[A] Secondary? Pass/Fail Notes (1) Game Rant PS1 graphics game list Maybe Yes Maybe Yes Debatable significance (three sentences about company but many list entries of their games) (2) NME interview Yes Yes Yes Yes YMMV on whether interviews count as secondary, but plenty of non-quoted, reliable, independent material here (3) Bloody Disgusting interview Yes Yes Yes No Another interview, but almost entirely quotes from Cocuzza (4) Lunchmeat VHS interview Yes Yes Maybe No Promo tone but not explicitly an ad, but almost entirely quotes (5) Dread Central article on Sanitarium Massacre No Yes Yes Yes Only one mention of Pig Farmer Games (6) Bloody Disgusting article on Sanitarium Massacre No Yes Yes Yes Only mentions PFG once (7) Bloody Disgusting playthrough of Halloween No Yes Yes Yes Brief mention of PFG, mostly about the playthrough (8) Bloody Disgusting article on Babysitter Bloodbath No Yes Yes Yes Mostly about BB, only one mention of PFG (9) TV Obsessive article on lo-fi horror Yes Yes Yes Yes Four paras on Puppet Combo and their games, website is small online mag with many writers + backing uncontroversial claims (10) GameSpew interview Yes Yes Yes No Mostly quotes again, claims are uncontroversial (11) Kill Screen VHS horror list No Yes Yes Yes Sigcov of Power Drill Massacre but no mention of Puppet Combo directly (12) Kill Screen article on Power Drill Massacre Yes Yes Yes Yes Two quotes from Cocuzza but otherwise all secondary, sigcov of Puppet Combo and Power Drill Massacre (13) Vulture article on low-res indie horror No Yes Yes Yes One-sentence mention of Power Drill Massacre and only photo credit mentions Puppet Combo (14) Kill Screen Halloween game list No Yes Yes Yes One para on Power Drill Massacre, no mention of Puppet Combo in prose (15) The Verge article on Patreon for game devs No Yes Yes Yes One sentence about Puppet Combo, Feed Me, Billy!, and their Patreon (16) Destructoid review of Nun Massacre Maybe Yes Yes Yes ?
Sigcov of game (2 paras) and some coverage of company; per WP:DESTRUCTOID, reviews are okay with attribution (17) Bloody Disgusting announcement for Nun Massacre Maybe Yes Yes Yes ?
Short article but mentions Puppet Combo and the style of their games in 2/3 paras (18) GameSpew review of Nun Massacre No Yes Yes Yes Legit review but only mentions Puppet Combo once in passing (19) Vice 2018 horror games article Yes Yes Yes Yes Three paras about PC and its games; well-researched article despite WP:VICE's ambiguity, used to verify its own quote (20) Rock Paper Shotgun review of The Glass Staircase No Yes Yes Yes Three mentions of Puppet Combo, but all in passing and in reference to the game (21) Destructoid console announcement for Murder House Maybe Yes Yes Yes By former Destructoid EIC; a couple of sentences specifically about Puppet Combo, but mostly about Murder House (22) Bloody Disgusting podcast episode on Murder House Yes Yes Yes Yes Half of the prose on page is in-depth about Puppet Combo; could not find working link for podcast episode (23) Kotaku review of Murder House No Yes Yes Yes WP:RSOPINION for reliability; all mentions of Puppet Combo are about Murder House (24) The A.V. Club 2021 horror games list No Yes Yes Yes One-sentence mention (25) VG247 best horror games list No Yes Yes Yes Two short sentences about Puppet Combo (26) Comicbook.com Murder House announcement No Yes Maybe Yes Brief, passing mentions of Puppet Combo (27) Bloody Disgusting console announcement for Murder House No Yes Yes Yes Short article with two passing mentions of Puppet Combo, mostly about Murder House (28) Destructoid article on Murder House icon No Yes Yes Yes Uncontroversial, properly sourced claims, but few mentions of Puppet Combo (29) Kotaku article on Murder House icon No Yes Yes Yes Same as above (30) Destructoid review of Christmas Massacre Yes Yes Yes Yes Sigcov of game and company; see ref 16 for Destructoid review reliability (31) Bloody Disgusting 2021 list of best horror games No Yes Yes Yes One-sentence mention of Christmas Massacre (32) IGN best PC horror games list Yes Yes Yes Yes Three paras exclusively on Puppet Combo as a whole (33) CogConnected article on Stay Out of the House No Yes Maybe Yes Not much about Puppet Combo; website is iffy but author wrote for RSes like Pocket Gamer and ref just verifies game's existence (34) Indie Ranger press release on Tonight It Follows No No Maybe Yes Press release written on blog by college student; verifies mostly uncontroversial claims about start of Puppet Combo Presents (35) The Verge article on lo-fi horror No Yes Yes Yes One-sentence mention of PC starting Torture Star Video (36) Destructoid review of Bloodwash No Yes Yes Yes A few short sentences about Puppet Combo (37) Survival Horror Downloads 2021 list of best horror games No Yes No Yes Puppet Combo only mentioned by name; comes from blog and has no author (38) PC Gamer review of Bloodwash No Yes Yes Yes Never mentions Puppet Combo, credits TSV with images (39) Itch.io page for Scary Tales Vol. 1 No No Yes No Self-published, only about game (40) Patreon page for The Summoning — No Yes No Self-published and also locked behind subscription wall (41) Patreon page for Bloodwash — No Yes No See ref 40 (42) Patreon page for The Booty Creek Cheek Freak — No Yes No See ref 40 (43) Patreon page for Ding Dong Dead — No Yes No See ref 40 (44) Puppet Combo tweet about No One Lives Under the Lighthouse No No Yes No See ref 39
- The rest of the refs are all Twitter links, so refer back to ref 39 for those. As the creator of this article, I tried to be as objective as I could about things, but if anyone thinks I mischaracterized anything, feel free to let me know. Otherwise, I think this shows that there are more than enough sources available in the article now that allow for it to remain. I've also found more recent refs that I can link below if necessary. (Also, I agree with IgerRM's comment about the article being more in line with WP:ARTIST, since WP:NCORP states that it applies to
a group of more than one person formed together for a purpose
and Puppet Combo is just Cocuzza.) benǝʇᴉɯ 00:48, 18 July 2025 (UTC)
- ^ Click on link to see mentions in reliability lists
- Project Moon (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Company fails WP:CORPDEPTH with a lack of significant coverage. There is coverage of one specific controversy involving the studio, but that alone does not confer inherited notability on the studio itself. Contested PROD that claims WP:SOURCESEXIST, but no examples given, nor could I find any in any language. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 12:04, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Video games, Companies, and South Korea. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 12:04, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- The sources exist, independently from the controversy.[17][18][19] Inven is a video gaming outlet, but the latter two — News1 and Pressian — are legitimate news media commonly cited here and their coverage goes beyond simple mentions, reporting about the company's prospect. They are not in the article yet, but I can add them. Emiya Mulzomdao (talk) 12:26, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- Please read WP:CORPTRIV. The 2nd and 3rd articles are very clearly "standard notices, brief announcements, and routine coverage". ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 20:59, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- That is not a routine coverage. It's Suwon city goverment investing on the company, which is rare and far from standard. Reports related to the controversy also satisfy audience requirement since newspapers like Yonhap News Agency, Kyunghyang Shinmun, and The Hankyoreh are some of the biggest news agencies in the nation. All of these are best compiled in the article about the company. Emiya Mulzomdao (talk) 12:42, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- It is a brief 1-paragraph article that says that someone invested in the company. This falls under WP:CORPTRIV as "of a capital transaction, such as raised capital", or something similar. Who did it is irrelevant. I think my point has been made though, so I won't push it further besides stating my opinion you are incorrect. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 22:01, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- Suwon's investment agreement is always a focal point of the regional newspapers due to the major perks and development in the special case city economics, which are stated in the articles, so I disagree with that. Emiya Mulzomdao (talk) 12:45, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- It is a brief 1-paragraph article that says that someone invested in the company. This falls under WP:CORPTRIV as "of a capital transaction, such as raised capital", or something similar. Who did it is irrelevant. I think my point has been made though, so I won't push it further besides stating my opinion you are incorrect. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 22:01, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- That is not a routine coverage. It's Suwon city goverment investing on the company, which is rare and far from standard. Reports related to the controversy also satisfy audience requirement since newspapers like Yonhap News Agency, Kyunghyang Shinmun, and The Hankyoreh are some of the biggest news agencies in the nation. All of these are best compiled in the article about the company. Emiya Mulzomdao (talk) 12:42, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- Please read WP:CORPTRIV. The 2nd and 3rd articles are very clearly "standard notices, brief announcements, and routine coverage". ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 20:59, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- Keep per Emiya Mulzomdao's sources grapesurgeon (seefooddiet) (talk) 19:09, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- Zoë Mode (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Contested PROD; company fails WP:CORPDEPTH. Sources are trivial announcements or press releases and do not reach the level necessary to indicate this is a notable game developer. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 12:00, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
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- Cat Daddy Games (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:NCORP. Attempts to delete/redirect were reversed multiple times, so an AfD is required under policy. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 19:31, 12 July 2025 (UTC)
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- Was there discussion of a redirect? What did a BEFORE find? Jclemens (talk) 20:28, 12 July 2025 (UTC)
- It was attempted to be redirected to 2K Games. It gets a brief mention there, too brief to really merit even a redirect IMO, but it could be valid if people believe it's necessary. None of the people who recreated the article demonstrated any sources, and were largely WP:SPA editors who may have been doing it for promotional reasons, nor could I find any non-trivial sources. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 23:13, 12 July 2025 (UTC)
- Redirect - To either 2K (company) or Take-Two Interactive. Doesn't matter in my opinion since they both wind up at the same place. Regardless of how many games it has developed, it is still a company and would be required to meet WP:NCORP by way of WP:CORPDEPTH-type coverage. I am not finding any. --CNMall41 (talk) 21:49, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- Wolfire Games (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:NCORP - there is very little about the studio that isn't related to the lawsuit. If the lawsuit is notable, which it may very well be, it can have its own article, which is common on Wikipedia, such as Lewis Galoob Toys, Inc. v. Nintendo of America, Inc. and similar pages. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 00:49, 11 July 2025 (UTC)
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- This statement implies that Wolfire only has notability because of a lawsuit vs Valve.
- However, Wolfire are notable for the first era of Humble Bundle, https://www.gamesindustry.biz/wolfire-games-making-a-success-of-the-humble-indie-bundle
- On top of that, their games have a cult classic status with their own notable stories that are related to developer action. Such as Lugaru having it's source made open and subsequently being uploaded to the iOS store and the developers sharing what it was like to be in such a situation (https://www.wolfire.com/blog/2011/02/Counterfeit-Lugaru-on-Apple-s-App-Store-developing/ Primary Source: https://www.vg247.com/lugaru-clone-pulled-from-app-store-free-upgrades-to-hd-version-offered) while reciever broke into the wider world asking questions about when gun games were simulated too well (https://www.wired.com/story/receiver-2-videogame-violence/)
- While induvidually they might be absorbed into another article, together the Valve Lawsuit, Humble Bundle, and their own games aren't connected by anything more than the company and so the page should be expanded to include summaries of their involvement and a "See more" link to the relative pages Skollivoxel (talk) 23:43, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- Re: The presented sources, source 1 appears to be largely about the Humble Bundle rather than Wolfire themselves. Lugaru/Receiver seem to be notable, but notability is not WP:INHERITED from a studio's games, so that argument you are making will not fly. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 23:47, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- Yes it is, for example Valve got their notability from the Half-Life series *before* the invention of the Steam platform. Creators get notability directly from their creations. 97.114.171.40 (talk) 03:59, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- Having press outlets start paying attention to them and write WP:RS about them should be distinguished from simply "assuming" they are notable because one of their games is. You'd think that if Wolfire gained such notability after they released these various games, someone would write directly about them. They largely didn't. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 04:11, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- Well now we seem to be back on the circle, you see above that there's a wired article about the sequel game to Receiver, how much press coverage counts? Is it some arbitrarily set number: no. Other than the abundance of video essays, viral videos, and mods for games inspired by mechanics established in their creations establishing their notoriety; The fact it's not just "one of their games" that's notable is why it's not assumption. They have established their name within several series and achievements throughout their existence. Game developers gain notoriety by making games that are acclaimed in the community, and the active participation of said community. This would be like making the claim that Running With Scissors is notable only because of the controversies they have in the press, and not the games themselves. 97.114.171.40 (talk) 08:00, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- Please read notability guidelines on Wikipedia at WP:NCORP. None of what you are describing is how articles on Wikipedia become notable. Only reliable sources about the company itself, nothing else. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 22:03, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- As the article is currently written, I do think its a bit weak on secondary and independent sources, however I don't believe [Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies)]] is written such that the lawsuit alone would exclude Wolfire from having their own article. That being said, I do believe there are more sources that could be added to this article to make is even stronger. The Game Developer article https://www.gamedeveloper.com/design/video-an-indie-approach-to-procedural-animation seems to be a great example of a notable source that should be added and included in this article, rather than deleting the article all together. NovaAmm (talk) 15:07, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- The Game Developer article merely highlights a talk given by Rosen at the publication's parent, GDC. I would consider a redirect to Humble Bundle, with the current state of the article. IgelRM (talk) 19:08, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- Well now we seem to be back on the circle, you see above that there's a wired article about the sequel game to Receiver, how much press coverage counts? Is it some arbitrarily set number: no. Other than the abundance of video essays, viral videos, and mods for games inspired by mechanics established in their creations establishing their notoriety; The fact it's not just "one of their games" that's notable is why it's not assumption. They have established their name within several series and achievements throughout their existence. Game developers gain notoriety by making games that are acclaimed in the community, and the active participation of said community. This would be like making the claim that Running With Scissors is notable only because of the controversies they have in the press, and not the games themselves. 97.114.171.40 (talk) 08:00, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- Having press outlets start paying attention to them and write WP:RS about them should be distinguished from simply "assuming" they are notable because one of their games is. You'd think that if Wolfire gained such notability after they released these various games, someone would write directly about them. They largely didn't. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 04:11, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- Yes it is, for example Valve got their notability from the Half-Life series *before* the invention of the Steam platform. Creators get notability directly from their creations. 97.114.171.40 (talk) 03:59, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- Re: The presented sources, source 1 appears to be largely about the Humble Bundle rather than Wolfire themselves. Lugaru/Receiver seem to be notable, but notability is not WP:INHERITED from a studio's games, so that argument you are making will not fly. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 23:47, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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- Mercenaries (series) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG, a "series" with only 2 games. Any information about the cancelled games can probably be merged into Mercenaries 2 or Pandemic Studios. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 20:57, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
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- Merge cancelled sequels info to Mercenaries: Playground of Destruction. The lead in that article already mentions Mercs Inc so a "Sequels" section could be created and the info merged there. --Mika1h (talk) 16:43, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
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- Blacknorth (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:NCORP. Major lack of significant coverage. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 20:12, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
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Comment: I've seen much worst, but the citations are inconsistent. Not sure if this is worth an attempt at a rescue. I'd like to know if anyone has ideas for ATD. Bearian (talk) 14:55, 11 July 2025 (UTC)
- Well, if their film (Here to Fall) is notable it's possible to redirect there and smerge a short blurb. Alpha3031 (t • c) 11:15, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- Commment. To my mind, and while the subject org may have a claim to some notability (as it appears to have been covered in local and industry news), it is difficult to look past the COI/SPA issues, clear inaccuracies (like conflating Kids Emmys and Childrens BAFTAs with their "non-kids" equivalents), and overtly promotional intent (and apparent WP:REFBOMBing) in the article's initial creation. To the extent that perhaps WP:STARTOVER is the best approach. Guliolopez (talk) 21:19, 11 July 2025 (UTC)
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- Brace Yourself Games (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:CORPDEPTH, coverage of the company consists of trivial announcements and mentions. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 04:32, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
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- Its notability is connected to Ryan Clark, question is whether those Independent Games Festival nominations etc are sufficient for WP:NARTIST. IgelRM (talk) 14:03, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
- It does seem that Clark passes WP:NARTIST due to his primary role at the studio he founded, creating numerous notable games. However, I can't find any RS about him either. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 19:58, 10 July 2025 (UTC)
- Its notability is also connected to its partnership with Nintendo on Nintendo's arguably best known IP. See, e.g., coverage from IGN, Inverse. Thewritestuff92 (talk) 20:57, 11 July 2025 (UTC)
- Yes, Cadence of Hyrule is unquestionably notable as a game given how incredibly rare it is for Nintendo to license their IP to an indie. However, that is not "inherited" by the studio. Given that it was essentially a one-off situation, it doesn't seem that the studio in itself is notable due to it. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 21:26, 11 July 2025 (UTC)
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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- BitComposer Interactive (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Disputed PROD - company fails WP:CORPDEPTH with its coverage consisting of minor announcements. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 22:09, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
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- Copying my PROD dispute message for convenience: GamesMarkt. IgelRM (talk) 16:14, 11 July 2025 (UTC)
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- Big Robot (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:NCORP with a lack of significant coverage. As its PROD was contested years ago, I am forced to nominate it for deletion. Jim Rossignol is a possible merge target, though it is also unclear whether that page is notable. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 08:19, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
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- OPPOSE - The prod was removed due to my comment on the notability. [20] It had multiple mentions in national and international news sites, including The Guardian, PC Gamer and Channel 4 Education's website, as noted on the PROD placer's page. The consensus was to remove the PROD. Conditions 1, 2, 3 and 4 were all met.
- If notability fails, I would think merging with Sir, You Are Being Hunted was more applicable than pure deletion. If deletion is the way, please place in my personal space so I can archinve before deletion if possible. Chaosdruid (talk) 12:05, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
- Notability requires more than just a trivial mention. Simple mentions in the media do not fulfill significant coverage. If there is significant coverage you are free to link to it, but the used sources appear to be about a specific game. BTW, I am not suggesting that Fallen City isn't notable and it very well might be, but notability isn't inherited from that. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 16:45, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
- Merging with Sir, You Are Being Hunted wouldn't work so well since they also developed The Signal From Tolva. There isn't an obvious single locale for redirection. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 17:46, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
- Notability requires more than just a trivial mention. Simple mentions in the media do not fulfill significant coverage. If there is significant coverage you are free to link to it, but the used sources appear to be about a specific game. BTW, I am not suggesting that Fallen City isn't notable and it very well might be, but notability isn't inherited from that. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 16:45, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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- BlitWorks (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Besides the Hobby Consolas piece, this company would seem to lack enough WP:SIGCOV to pass WP:NCORP. Possible COI concerns with the article's creator so they may not have considered notability when making the article. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 05:06, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
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- Feature on co-founder Miguel Ángel Horna from Vandal, Blitworks "joining" Larian Studios from Game Developer. IgelRM (talk) 13:13, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
- Keep just move it to draftspace, it's better to improve a created article than to create the same article that was deleted
- ⟨⟨BeastBoy-X-Talk!⟩⟩ 16:21, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
- "Just make it a draft" doesn't work when it will never be notable. Larian Studios is a possible merge target though since BlitWorks became Larian Barcelona. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 16:49, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
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- KiriKiri (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Non-notable engine subject to a previous redirect from this deletion discussion: [21]. The sources - many pasted as bare links, do not demonstrate significant coverage from reliable secondary sources. Per WP:SCHOLARSHIP I really don't vibe with the idea that you can collect coverage in random research papers not primarily about the subject, particularly a student's Bachelors thesis, and say this amounts to notability. VRXCES (talk) 00:03, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
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- Delete Appears to fail WP:GNG. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 00:29, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
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- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Ineligible for soft deletion.
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- Random map (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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"Random map" appears to be an uncommonly used term. This page seems to fail WP:GNG and at most should likely be merged with procedural generation or just deleted. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 12:38, 4 July 2025 (UTC)
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- Completely agreed the article shouldn't exist on its own. Undecided on deleting, merging as the nom mentions, or merging to the glossary of video game terms. I support any except retaining the stand alone article. Sergecross73 msg me 14:07, 4 July 2025 (UTC)
- Merge makes sense to me. Procedural generation already primarily focuses on video games, and has room for expansion. +1 to mention at glossary of video game terms also. Caleb Stanford (talk) 17:55, 6 July 2025 (UTC)
- Delete as WP:OR and WP:SYNTH (may be redirect to entry in glossary; nothing is actually properly inline-cited to merge). It is a broad yet specialised concept and the current article has not established the actual subject as consistently seen in reliable sources. It's like having an article for "magic damage" or "jump attack". It's too broad for Wikipedia for sources to meaningfully tie the term across the multitude or variations without it all becoming SYNTH. Like, isn't this just a hand-picked subset of procedural generation with no clear delineation? — HELLKNOWZ ∣ TALK 20:37, 6 July 2025 (UTC)
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- Redirect to either procedural generation or to glossary of video game terms, which should then mention procedural generation. ScalarFactor (talk) 20:02, 11 July 2025 (UTC)
- Merge with Procedural generation into a slimmed down version of the text (specifically the part where "random map" is defined in the first paragraph at a minimum), and use the sources present as citations. These concepts mostly overlap and there would definitely be a place on the encyclopedia to discuss this. Plus, I can imagine someone searching for "random map" as a more common term that people are familiar with, to find the more (extended) name for what the mechanism of random map creation is; i.e. procedural generation, to create a "random" map. Utopes (talk / cont) 05:13, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- Merge per all. These concepts definitely overlap and it's good to give readers that context. Shooterwalker (talk) 18:11, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- Stormind Games (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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I believe it clearly fails WP:NCORP. This is the closest thing to SIGCOV I can find (though, ironically, not used in the article at all), but other than that it appears to be entirely trivial or not fulfilling WP:CORPDEPTH. Notability is not inherited from a company's games. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 08:23, 2 July 2025 (UTC)
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- I've found some other useful articles. [22] [23] [24] [25][26]. Are they helping? Thank you EneaCirce (talk) 15:38, 2 July 2025 (UTC)
- The repubblica/italian.tech article looks on the edge of the criteria. Generally, 3 sources in-line with the guidelines are necessary. IgelRM (talk) 09:40, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
- Comment - Please see this discussion for further context. Noteworth bits include the article creator having a WP:COI and generally getting advice and getting some general advice that this probably isn't meeting WP:GNG or WP:CORPDEPTH, neither of which prevented the draft getting published apparently. Sergecross73 msg me 17:04, 2 July 2025 (UTC)
- I wonder if the notability criteria for companies is stricter than the games they produced, given that they have their own notability criteria, but not for games. Or maybe its just that they don't really write about the company and focus on games instead. I'm surprised that it even went thru AfC and expected that reviewers should accept drafts that have a good change to not be nominated for (or survive an) AfD. I've been a reviewer since the start of the year. JuniperChill (talk) 10:36, 3 July 2025 (UTC)
- I'd say the criteria are exactly the same for companies and their games. NCORP is just a specific way of applying GNG, making it more clear what is and isn't significant coverage. The issue is that games are more notable than companies, because most companies only matter in a rather geographically confined area or employ a very small amount of people, whereas the games are distributed globally and get the coverage that entails. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 13:00, 3 July 2025 (UTC)
- I wonder if the notability criteria for companies is stricter than the games they produced, given that they have their own notability criteria, but not for games. Or maybe its just that they don't really write about the company and focus on games instead. I'm surprised that it even went thru AfC and expected that reviewers should accept drafts that have a good change to not be nominated for (or survive an) AfD. I've been a reviewer since the start of the year. JuniperChill (talk) 10:36, 3 July 2025 (UTC)
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- Black Widow Games (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:NCORP, with very little in the way of significant coverage besides a Planet Half-Life profile. I am nominating this for AfD due to a previous discussion that resulted in a merge here, so it can't be said not to be "controversial". ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 22:58, 30 June 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Video games and Companies. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 22:58, 30 June 2025 (UTC)
- Weak Keep - I'm a bit on the fence with this one. While there isn't much coverage specifically about the company itself, they appear to be a significant developer in gaming history. Their games have received substantial coverage, which, in my view, supports a keep.Darkm777 (talk) 01:49, 1 July 2025 (UTC)
- WP:NARTIST can sometimes allow for that, but companies do not fall under that and are required to pass WP:NCORP/WP:CORPDEPTH. This is not a case where notability is inherited. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 04:14, 1 July 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Advertising and United States of America. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 02:54, 1 July 2025 (UTC)
- Unseen64 has details on their last game "They Hunger: Lost Souls", I would consider a merge/redirect to List of Source mods. IgelRM (talk) 13:25, 2 July 2025 (UTC)
- Delete - This is a company and reviews of their games do not grant WP:INHERENT notability. I cannot find coverage that meets WP:ORGCRIT but willing to review again if anyone can point out the WP:THREE. --CNMall41 (talk) 16:16, 3 July 2025 (UTC)
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 02:39, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
- Keep - Black Widow Games is one of the oldest modding groups in the history of modern gaming history. Their works have both recieved press coverage and to my knowledge, have even been cited in a book dedicated to culture and videogame innovation. I think with all this combined, it warrants a keep. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MayhemStoppingBy (talk • contribs) 04:41, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
- Thanks for the !vote. As requested previously with others, can you name the WP:THREE. --CNMall41 (talk) 16:59, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
- 1. Chapter 6 of Dr. Dennis Redmond’s *Satellite Uplink*, and his dissertation
- An extensive analytical essay that profiles Black Widow Games in-depth. Satellite Uplink, Chapter 6 (https://web.archive.org/web/20150926231928/http://members.efn.org/~dredmond/PP6.html). Later cited twice in Dr. Redmond’s PhD dissertation, Videogame Culture as Transnational Media: One Neoliberalism, Many Resistances (University of Illinois at Urbana–Champaign, pp. 69 & 322) (https://www.ideals.illinois.edu/items/42310).
- 2. Planet Half-Life’s Five Days of Fear
- A five-part, multi-page deep dive by GameSpy’s Planet Half-Life writer John “Chief” Philips. Covers the company’s 1997 origins, accomplishments, interviews with Einar Saukas & Neil Manke, and the future of “They Hunger: Lost Souls.” (Note: Page 2 of both “Day 3” & “Day 5” are missing from archive.) (https://web.archive.org/web/20121107001442/http://planethalflife.gamespy.com/View.php?view=Previews.Detail&id=1).
- 3. TheGamer — “Sony Once Commissioned A Half-Life Mod To Promote The First Underworld Movie — And It Was Amazing”
- A retrospective by Eric Switzer about how Sony Pictures commissioned Black Widow Games to create an official tie-in mod for the Underworld movie. (https://www.thegamer.com/half-life-mod-underworld-bloodline-history-vampire-the-masquerade-bloodhunt/).
- 4. Honorary 4th — Extensive PC Gamer Coverage.
- - USS Darkstar & They Hunger episodes 1–3 featured on demo discs packaged (Issues #63, #69, #75, #85; 1999–2001).
- - They Hunger included in PC Gamer’s *“10 Scariest PC Games Ever”* (Issue #103; Nov 2002, p. 102).
- - They Hunger: Lost Souls featured in behind-the-scenes articles and a two-page spread (Issues #157 & #162; 2007–2008).
- For an early Half-Life modding studio — though niche — I feel the amount and quality of sourcing here exceeds what is often seen for similar topics or even more niche topics that survive AfD scrutiny. The combination of academic, industry, and mainstream retrospective coverage clearly demonstrates that Black Widow Games has received significant, independent, reliable coverage and therefore merits a standalone article under WP:GNG. MayhemStoppingBy (talk) 19:19, 11 July 2025 (UTC)
- There may be a decent argument here that Neil Manke is notable per WP:NARTIST as the studio's creator and game designer. Especially since he is largely referred to by name in that first source. Not sure I'm convinced the studio is though. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 21:35, 11 July 2025 (UTC)
- While yes, Manke is integral to the Black Widow Games story (as it dissolved when he disappeared); Einar Saukas, Magnus Jansén, Jack Cooper, Paul Taylor, and Dave Waters are also mentioned further down in the first link’s text as they worked with Manke in the “They Hunger” and a number of other projects.
- They are also mentioned in the Planet Half-Life’s interviews along with their new talent. These folks would’ve been involved in Link #3’s project as that was the last published project Black Widow Games made (and were later involved with “They Hunger: Lost Souls”). MayhemStoppingBy (talk) 00:56, 12 July 2025 (UTC)
- Overall I simply disagree that thee sources show notability for Black Widow Games. From being about the games they made to only being about a single one of the devs, these exemplify the incorrect notion that "notability is inherited". It's possible that Niel Manke or more of the devs who worked for Black Widow Games pass WP:NARTIST, but that has no bearing on this discussion and another page should be created. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 22:08, 14 July 2025 (UTC)
- There may be a decent argument here that Neil Manke is notable per WP:NARTIST as the studio's creator and game designer. Especially since he is largely referred to by name in that first source. Not sure I'm convinced the studio is though. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 21:35, 11 July 2025 (UTC)
- See WP:SOURCESEXIST. Simply believing they exist will not magically will them into existence. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 23:29, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
- Thanks for the !vote. As requested previously with others, can you name the WP:THREE. --CNMall41 (talk) 16:59, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 11:22, 15 July 2025 (UTC)- Comment — In continuance and conclusion with my discussion with Zxcvbnm — WP:GNG and WP:NCORP ask whether the subject has received significant coverage in reliable, independent sources — and the cited sources clearly profile Black Widow Games as a collective entity.
- Three of the four sources provided dedicate sections specifically to the studio itself. Dr. Redmond’s text, while focusing in part on Neil Manke’s design philosophy, makes it clear it is within his capacity of Black Widow Games, referring to the full lineup at the time and later citing the studio by name in his dissertation. Planet Half-Life’s Five Days of Fear series interviews every then-member of Black Widow Games and their approach to They Hunger: Lost Souls, along with previously documenting its the studios’ history, not to mention Planet Half-Life covered Black Widow Games many times. PC Gamer likewise featured behind-the-scenes coverage of the studio in issues #157 and #162 in the same capacity to Five Days of Fear.
- This level of coverage clearly exceeds the threshold set by WP:NCORP and satisfies WP:GNG; Again. I feel this level of coverage here exceeds what could normally be asked of such an early creator in the mod scene— The combination of academic, industry, and mainstream retrospective coverage clearly demonstrates that Black Widow Games has received significant, independent, reliable coverage that should warrant keeping despite AfD scrutiny. So I ask that you and CNMall41 re-examine and re-evaluate your votes based on this information extending beyond the claim of inherited notability as there are very few groups like this that can claim notability to warrant an article. But this as I outlined, should be one of them as it provides an outlier to many firsts in the larger context of video game modding history. MayhemStoppingBy (talk) 22:13, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- Doublesix (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:NCORP. Sourcing is extremely weak. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 02:53, 28 June 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Video games and Companies. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 02:53, 28 June 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 06:37, 28 June 2025 (UTC)
- doublesix was a developer that created multiple video games for the PlayStation 3, Xbox 360, PC, iOS and Wii.
- https://www.mobygames.com/company/10593/doublesix-video-games-ltd/
- Moreover, if this entry is false, then what studio developed Burn Zombie Burn?
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burn_Zombie_Burn 2407:C800:432B:D800:5464:9A5D:66B2:F623 (talk) 07:09, 29 June 2025 (UTC)
- Nobody said the article is false. Merely being true does not make something suitable for inclusion. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 08:02, 29 June 2025 (UTC)
- Then why is it being deleted. The studio existed and made games that were released to the general public. Gemuguru (talk) 13:13, 1 July 2025 (UTC)
- Being the maker of notable games does not instantly confer notability onto a company. The company itself has to be covered sufficiently by sources, which in some cases it is, but in this case it's not. In this case the article violated notability critera since you created it, but it just flew under the radar for years. I'd recommend reading WP:GNG and WP:NCORP carefully if you intend to make new articles in the future. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 11:51, 2 July 2025 (UTC)
- So a company that can be proved to have exist and has evidence that made and released games is going to be cut because you don't like it? It makes no sense. You already have articles on Wikipedia that cite the developer in this instance, and multiple external sources that prove it existed. Gemuguru (talk) 02:01, 3 July 2025 (UTC)
- if the company existed and released games it should still be listed. Or is this the wiki for some thing and not All things? 24.112.250.163 (talk) 10:02, 3 July 2025 (UTC)
- Of course it isn't for "all things", that's why WP:INDISCRIMINATE and WP:NOT exist as policies. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 12:28, 4 July 2025 (UTC)
- From looking at it, I can see that neither policy has a term that this article is specifically breaching. Please provide the actual term that, by your reasonable interpretation, this article may be breaching. 2605:B100:149:201F:6047:E8FF:FECA:73AC (talk) 14:15, 15 July 2025 (UTC)
- Of course it isn't for "all things", that's why WP:INDISCRIMINATE and WP:NOT exist as policies. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 12:28, 4 July 2025 (UTC)
- Being the maker of notable games does not instantly confer notability onto a company. The company itself has to be covered sufficiently by sources, which in some cases it is, but in this case it's not. In this case the article violated notability critera since you created it, but it just flew under the radar for years. I'd recommend reading WP:GNG and WP:NCORP carefully if you intend to make new articles in the future. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 11:51, 2 July 2025 (UTC)
- Then why is it being deleted. The studio existed and made games that were released to the general public. Gemuguru (talk) 13:13, 1 July 2025 (UTC)
- Nobody said the article is false. Merely being true does not make something suitable for inclusion. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 08:02, 29 June 2025 (UTC)
- Merge to Kuju (company). IgelRM (talk) 12:47, 3 July 2025 (UTC)
- doublesix should have its own entry. Gemuguru (talk) 13:02, 3 July 2025 (UTC)
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: We need some more opinions on outcomes here.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 05:40, 5 July 2025 (UTC) - Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Per previous relist comment.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Left guide (talk) 06:43, 12 July 2025 (UTC)
- Merge to Kuju. I'm not seeing any SIGCOV at all, only things that come up are a few articles on the games they made. Weirdguyz (talk) 08:20, 12 July 2025 (UTC)
- Keep - I am going to be a contrarian and vote to keep the page. Doublesix worked on a bunch of games, according to their page at MobyGames. The best thing Gemuguru can do, since he his expressing interest in keeping the page alive, is to find sources listing or mentioning Doublesix as a developer or co-developer of the games mentioned on their MobyGames page and make a list with said sources. The other thing that can be done to not lose the information is to merge the page into another for the time being until more sources discussing Doublesix are found. Those are my only two cents i will give about this matter. Roberth Martinez (talk) 03:41, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- Aggro Crab (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:CORPDEPTH. Coverage is almost entirely about their games, not the studio themselves. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 02:28, 28 June 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Video games and Companies. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 02:28, 28 June 2025 (UTC)
- Keep (as author) with sources about the organization:
- Game Developer- more about the studio following the game, focuses on their funding issues among other things.
- GameRant source about the studio's next game and decent depth of studio rather than just Another Crab's Treasure.
- GamesIndustry covering their response to Team17 releasing NFTs.
- GamesRadar+ covering info about the studio and team getting broken in to.
- GamesRadar+ info about the studio discussing changes to a coding application.
Yoblyblob (Talk) :) 02:38, 28 June 2025 (UTC)
- These are largely about their video games, and otherwise very WP:TRIVIALCOVERAGE of the studio themselves. There is a clear lack of WP:SIGCOV here. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 02:40, 28 June 2025 (UTC)
- Broadly being about their games should contribute to GNG as coverage is not about a specific game Yoblyblob (Talk) :) 02:43, 28 June 2025 (UTC)
- Per WP:CORPDEPTH, "Sources that describe only a specific topic related to an organization should not be regarded as providing significant coverage of that organization." See also WP:ORGTRIV. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 02:48, 28 June 2025 (UTC)
- Is the coverage about funding, also found at GamesRadar+ not coverage about the organization? Yoblyblob (Talk) :) 02:50, 28 June 2025 (UTC)
- I'd argue that is also trivial coverage. It's just restating one social media post by them. Just because they are an indie darling whose every post gets picked up by game journalists does not imply SIGCOV, as there needs to be substantive discussion about the studio. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 02:55, 28 June 2025 (UTC)
- Is the coverage about funding, also found at GamesRadar+ not coverage about the organization? Yoblyblob (Talk) :) 02:50, 28 June 2025 (UTC)
- Per WP:CORPDEPTH, "Sources that describe only a specific topic related to an organization should not be regarded as providing significant coverage of that organization." See also WP:ORGTRIV. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 02:48, 28 June 2025 (UTC)
- Broadly being about their games should contribute to GNG as coverage is not about a specific game Yoblyblob (Talk) :) 02:43, 28 June 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Washington-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 06:38, 28 June 2025 (UTC)
- I concur that the sourcing presented is insufficient, delete. IgelRM (talk) 16:47, 30 June 2025 (UTC)
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 05:38, 5 July 2025 (UTC) - Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Left guide (talk) 06:42, 12 July 2025 (UTC)
- Delete This is a company therefore GNG/WP:NCORP requires at least two deep or significant sources with each source containing "Independent Content" showing in-depth information *on the company*. "Independent content", in order to count towards establishing notability, must include original and independent opinion, analysis, investigation, and fact checking that are clearly attributable to a source unaffiliated to the subject. I'm unable to identify any references that meet the criteria for establishing notability. HighKing++ 17:53, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
- Dan Bull (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)
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Fails WP:GNG, no WP:SIGCOV. All the sources currently on the page that aren't to, like, youtube videos are very short and barely talk about him. From google there's a Forbes WP:INTERVIEW but that's all I found. I like the guy's music but he doesn't meet Wikipedia's requirements for an article TheLoyalOrder (talk) 07:49, 26 June 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and United Kingdom. TheLoyalOrder (talk) 07:49, 26 June 2025 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Video games, Internet, and England. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 10:51, 26 June 2025 (UTC)
- Comment: I am familiar with DB from Epic Rap Battles of History. From an inspection of the references, there appear to be many from YouTube and X, which are not reliable and violate WP:RS/PS. I am uncertain how to vote for now, so I will wait for others to give their opinions before settling on a vote. 11WB (talk) 21:21, 26 June 2025 (UTC)
- Found a feature from Huck (magazine). IgelRM (talk) 12:15, 3 July 2025 (UTC)
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 03:01, 4 July 2025 (UTC)
- Keep - aside from the aforementioned Forbes article and piece in Huck Magazine I've found a short piece in Vice and an interview in Tubefilter, additionally it's a dead link but existing references in the article to Metro and a short piece from Computerandvideogames, all of which are notable outlets with their own articles. Aside from those, coverage of his work in TheNextWeb, an interview in Gizorama and an article from 2012 in VentureBeat. As much as a few of these aren't amazing sources (some veer into failing WP:INTERVIEW) I think there's enough here to suggest notability. ser! (chat to me - see my edits) 12:26, 4 July 2025 (UTC)
- forbes and huck -> interviews
- vice -> 3 paragraphs hardly in-depth coverage
- tubefilter is also an interview
- the metro article has half a paragraph on him
- computerandvideogames -> two very short paragraphs
- thenextweb is mainly about the video not dan bull, like 2 paragraphs mention him and only as the creator of this video basically
- gizorama maybe you meant to link to something else he's not mentioned?
- venturebeat is again not really about dan but a video he made
- The only significant coverage is from interviews which aren't secondary or independent of the subject TheLoyalOrder (talk) 21:58, 4 July 2025 (UTC)
- While 2-3 paragraphs may not be in-depth coverage on their own, I wouldn't call them insignificant. It is a start, and if he's significant enough to be interviewed on several separate occasions, then it stands to reason that there may be more out there. Here are some other potential sources I found excluding several smaller mentions I skipped over which included an NYT article and an Indian business magazine:
- https://aestheticamagazine.com/youtube-killed-the-video-star/
- https://wikipedialibrary.idm.oclc.org/login?auth=production&url=https://search.ebscohost.com/login.aspx?direct=true&db=bwh&AN=8OGE.7E66604B.0D14FB4B&site=eds-live&scope=site
- https://wikipedialibrary.idm.oclc.org/login?auth=production&url=https://search.ebscohost.com/login.aspx?direct=true&db=bth&AN=59691139&site=eds-live&scope=site
- Also, surprisingly enough, he might meet WP:NMG, but I'd love to here from someone more familiar with those guidelines.
- - Ike Lek (talk) 06:23, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
- Yeah, not sure how I've managed to link the wrong Gizorama article; meant to link this - again an interview, but as Ike Lek says, it's a start. ser! (chat to me - see my edits) 10:52, 5 July 2025 (UTC)
- While 2-3 paragraphs may not be in-depth coverage on their own, I wouldn't call them insignificant. It is a start, and if he's significant enough to be interviewed on several separate occasions, then it stands to reason that there may be more out there. Here are some other potential sources I found excluding several smaller mentions I skipped over which included an NYT article and an Indian business magazine:
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. A further review of newly found sources would be helpful.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 03:11, 11 July 2025 (UTC)- Merge/redirect to Epic Rap Battles of History; Aesthetica source looks fine, others don't appear to add much. IgelRM (talk) 16:10, 11 July 2025 (UTC)
- That merge or redirect would likely be confusing, as he was only a guest in that series to the best of my knowledge. Ike Lek (talk) 19:44, 11 July 2025 (UTC)
- Right, perhaps just a redirect although even that might be confusing. IgelRM (talk) 14:39, 12 July 2025 (UTC)
- That merge or redirect would likely be confusing, as he was only a guest in that series to the best of my knowledge. Ike Lek (talk) 19:44, 11 July 2025 (UTC)
- Merge/redirct per IgelRM. Subject doesn't really have its own WP:SIGCOV outside of the main article. Shooterwalker (talk) 18:08, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
- Merge/redirect to Epic Rap Battles of History; Aesthetica source looks fine, others don't appear to add much. IgelRM (talk) 16:10, 11 July 2025 (UTC)